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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

On BBCR4 now - GIDS whistleblower being discussed

100 replies

1984in2019 · 22/07/2019 07:26

Not sure who is on to defend the service but he is denying all the issues so far...

OP posts:
AlessandraAsteriti · 22/07/2019 07:27

Pretty good interview IMHO.

PancakeAndKeith · 22/07/2019 07:29

Just turned radio on to hear the end of it.

He tied himself up in knots didn’t he.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 22/07/2019 07:31

That was great!

Actual proper scrutiny. GIDs rep (CEO?? Didn't catch his position) didn't come across too well.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 22/07/2019 07:32

It's really happening now isn't it? The wheels are starting to come off

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 07:32

But he did say puberty blockers were fully reversible but they had been given a grant to do research on the long term research on them 🤦‍♀️
?

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 22/07/2019 07:32

This scrutiny would never happened on Today last autumn

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 07:33

Yeah I think his name was Paul Jenkins

truthisarevolutionaryact · 22/07/2019 07:33

It was Paul Jenkins - CEO of the Tavistock.
He came over as inconsistent and evasive . Puberty blockers are reversible - errrr - we've just been given some money for a long term study into the long term effects...

Questions were very pointed and he could only bluster.

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 07:34

Long term effects of them

Cwenthryth · 22/07/2019 07:36

The BBC Sounds app lets you rewind live radio - it starts at 7.22.

It’s Paul Jenkins, chief executive of Tavi & Portman trust.

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 07:36

Yeah that was confusing. Why get a grant to do research if he was so sure the blockers effects were fully reversible

LumpySpacedPrincess · 22/07/2019 07:36

Had to turn it off as dd came in and we disagree on this. Sounded good. I don't know how they can say that puberty blockers are fully reversible when for a start they have blocked vital changes in the body, also there are all the lawsuits in the US from kids who took Lupron.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 22/07/2019 07:37

I noticed his use of "as we know today, treatments are reversible" in relation to hormone blockers.
It was a great and pointed interview - long overdue from the BBC but a relief to see that they are finally taking this on.

Cwenthryth · 22/07/2019 07:37

He’s not a doctor

SisterWendyBuckett · 22/07/2019 07:41

I believe this was Paul Jenkins, Chief Executive of the Tavistock and Portman Clinic/NHS Trust.

I thought his response was pathetic. All he could say was that puberty blockers were reversible - which is a very hotly contested issue. The rest of his defence was treading water, basically saying a lot of nothing.

Interviewer Justin Webb did his best to represent some of Kirsty Entwistle's concerns, but it's clear that the issues are too difficult - or too contentious - for Today journalists to be able to challenge interviewees properly.

They needed to have someone else on, either up
against Paul Jenkins or speaking separately, who does understand the medical and ethical concerns.

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 07:43

But I thought at very lest if puberty blockers are taken then the penis and testicles doesn’t grow

Is that not what happened to oh I can’t remember the name of the child who didn’t have enough to make a faux vagina

Let alone what happens to the brain and other parts of body when puberty is blocked

DpWm · 22/07/2019 07:50

"Not enough to work with" happened to both Jackie Green and Jazz Jennings littlebrowndog.
JG's mum (of Mermaids) was filmed laughing about it...

truthisarevolutionaryact · 22/07/2019 07:50

Even though I thought it was a good interview in that Justin Webb persisted and challenged, it was frustrating to know that the knowledge that women have on here about puberty blockers and problems, mental health and comorbidities with teenagers and the impact of the trans bully groups on society just wasn't understood by Webb and therefore his challenges were limited.
BUT - I still think it was a positive and Jenkins came over as evasive and disingenuous.

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 07:52

Thanks dpwm

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 08:00

So that’s the bit I don’t understand.
If all the research has been done on puberty blockers and it’s all safe then why is more research being done

And at what point can the puberty blockers be stopped and no problems ? What age ? How long ?

SisterWendyBuckett · 22/07/2019 08:01

There was no discussion whatsoever of what puberty blockers do, the side effects on the body or the brain, or indeed the emotions of a child who's puberty is halted while their peers develop naturally.

He said that the medication had been safely used for 30 years - I think that may be referring to using them for treating precocious puberty in very young children. I don't think they've been used for 30 years to arrest the natural course of puberty in children who may have a number of emotional and social problems.

We mustn't forget that this is being used for children who are saying, or their parents are saying, that they have been 'born in the wrong body'. How is that provable and why should that be treated with powerful medication that endocrinologists such as William Malone say are not without significant side effects and are not completely reversible.

Jenkins said that around 50% of their patients were not treated with medication - which means that around half of these children are. I think that's a shockingly high figure for something that he himself says more research needs to be done on.

nauticant · 22/07/2019 08:04

Paul Jenkins, Chief Executive of the Tavistock and Portman Clinic/NHS Trust

You can find his medical qualifications here:

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/governance/board-of-directors/

Cwenthryth · 22/07/2019 08:09

When challenged that no young person would be given a diagnosis other than that they are transgender, Jenkins stated “The purpose of the service is to explore, on an individual basis, with those young people and their families, what they’re feeling, what their experiences are, not to dispute the genuineness about their, about their....[tails off into stuttering]

I don’t think he actually understands the issues here, listening to him, tbh, he doesn’t even have the vocabulary easily at hand to discuss the matter. No one is accusing trans-identifying teens of lying that they feel they are trans, that their experiences of life have led them to conclude that they must be trans. Obviously their feelings are genuine - our concerns are that the basis of those feelings are coming of age in a society entrenched in toxic gender ideology, sex-based stereotypes, homophobia, misogyny, that young people may be dealing with complex trauma, abandonment, attachment issues, physical, emotional & sexual abuse, autism, mental health issues and find ‘belonging’ for the first time in a community that tells them that if they deny their biological reality and seek to alter their anatomy and physiology, they will find love and acceptance sorely lacking anywhere else in their life. The task at hand is to disentangle where the feelings and beliefs of the young person come from, and identifying how best to help the young person move forward and become a functional, physically & mentally healthy adult human. There’s a massive difference between challenging thought patterns - exactly what psychological therapy is supposed to do - and ‘disputing genuineness’.

littlbrowndog · 22/07/2019 08:09

Yeah Wendy. So half the children get these drugs which some doctors are saying the effects are not truly reversible

nauticant · 22/07/2019 08:11

If you check Justin Webb's opinion pieces in newspapers, you'll see he's very skeptical of identity politics and views it as harmful in some contexts. I think this had fed through to him being skeptical about gender identity ideology.

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