Internalized Homophobia is More Powerful than You Know

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Really interesting interview by GNC Ben, a de transitioned woman who was interviewed by Ben Boyce re coercion in the trans community, of Thomasin, a recently de transitioned woman.

Thomasin came to the meeting in Newcastle recently; I hadn't realised that that particular meeting was still a big part of her journey.

She talks about a lot of key points that seem to be increasingly common as well as her experiences of the GIDS at Leeds and how mh counsellors approach gender queries.

It strikes me that research into ROGD and de transitioning people is very urgently required, (obviously) not least because counsellors who work with any YP with gender issues must have the nuanced issues straight in their heads and how to approach it all through their counselling which may be for other issues.

It strikes me that this is why so many services wash their hands of young people who have 'gender issues;' lack of understanding how to approach and that the 'gender issue' is the main issue, as Michelle Moore described at the Newcastle Talk that Thomasin mentions.

About half way through she describes being at school and feeling like an imposter as she didn't think it's possible to look the ways she does (gender non conforming) and be a woman.

It's so important that young girls (and all
Children) see women who don't conform or perform femininity.

We don't see that as much anymore. Can't help thinking this is a big part of the issue with a ROGD in girls.

So many other points to make from this video.

Also that she didn't see lesbians, and when de transitioning, struggled to find groups who were for lesbians (ie not also including trans women.)

Also trying to get her head around being a lesbian but knowing she didn't feel attracted to transwomen.

"Logic hit me in the face"

"Also trying to get her head around being a lesbian but knowing she didn't feel attracted to transwomen."
Dear lord. Poor girl.

It's so important that young girls (and all Children) see women who don't conform or perform femininity
I agree. I’m a straight woman but I don’t do dresses or makeup. I wear either Birkenstocks or DMs, never ‘girly’ shoes. Always trousers or leggings and a tunic. I’m a teacher. I hope that I’m showing girls it’s ok to be comfortable with your own gender presentation without it having any implications for your gender identity or sexuality.

Towards the end there's a discussion about how appealing YouTube videos by trans people are.

Literally covered with rainbows and glitter.

Positive happy shiny people, Never a video about how depression was worse on T or issues with sexual pleasure.

Thomasin and Ben rightly describe it as propaganda.

I started a thread that sank quickly the other day but there are so many parallels with flat earthers here and YouTube. Thomasin describes retreating to YouTube at school In her phone when she increasingly didn't fit in.

Absolutely cardi.

As a teen for me it was actually trendy to wear boys clothes; I liked the fit of Male Levi's. We all wore dms; I had rainbow stitching to add some colour but actually felt that was frivolous! Everyone else had black or cherries.

Sound familiar? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3641752-sound-familiar

Flat earthers and YouTube

She very much "wanted to be that YouTube trans guy, with all the friends and popularity" - discussing how visual imagery influences young people to want to be something in order to gain approval rather that because that is what the actually are. Also Re 🍓 advert!

And I can see that, these are things we've talk about here meant times. I've personally seen an enormous link to the visual imagery of YouTube re trans but also gender stereotypes generally in popular culture, tv and film.

That was a great interview. Thanks for posting. I kept imagining what it would be like to be the girls mother and hear her say "or I could go back to being [her name]" (Sorry didn't catch what her name was). I think I'd have cried with joy to hear my child say that if I was in her shoes.

What can we do, as parents or teachers or whatever, to show our girls that being a woman doesn't mean having to live up to a certain ideal? I'm assuming not every mother or close friend/relative of all the young girls and women who want to transition, are like walking Barbie dolls, so I'm sure they see different types of women in their lives but the main message they get is that there is a certain way they must be. How can we counteract it?

And also (please forgive me if I phrase this badly) but to show them that being a lesbian is ok if that is what they are? I mean, before they even have a conversation or start thinking about their sexuality, how can we teach them that it isn't a dirty word and that it is an option? I feel worried that what they hear at home just isn't enough to balance out the narrative.

I did feel some hope when they talked about realising that there are not many lesbian groups, or none at all even. Perhaps they will be the generation to change that. They have a big motivation to do so having been through the experience they have.

Or at least perhaps they will be a big part of the ongoing movement to change that and help create more spaces for lesbians and for women in general.

Also trying to get her head around being a lesbian but knowing she didn't feel attracted to transwomen.

Of course she's not attracted males whatever they clain to be, otherwise she'd be bi or straight. The absolute bullshit these poor girls are being told is heart breaking. So much confusion, not being attracted to male lesbians, not fitting in compared to the glittery propaganda it's not hard to see why they get dragged in.

It is a good interview. highlights why it's so important to fight for lesbian spaces and rights.

Her name is Thomasin; she has just recently legally changed it back to this from another 'male name'. She found this last stage quite hard as she struggled to identify with her name for a long time if that makes sense, but also very cathartic (I've spoken to her about this elsewhere). It's a very beautiful unique name!

A complete lack of the L mediocre

Thank you for sharing this. Our society seems to prime young GNC lesbian women for the trans cult. How many will continue on a trans journey and make irreversible changes to their bodies before they realise they've been lied to? Good to see that at least Thomasin and GNC centric (Ben, not sure if she's changed her name yet but think she was planning to) have avoided that fate. I hope this interview might help others avoid it too.

Both are intelligent, articulate young women who are doing a great service for other young gender question women and I find that heart warming.

GNC has grown in confidence so much since her early videos which is wonderful to see.

That was a very interesting watch. 2 very articulate and thoughtful young women. Just waiting for a Channel 4 documentary - "Where have all the lesbians gone?"

"Where have all the lesbians gone?"
Or
"Why can we only find lesbians who are middle aged adults with a penis?"

I haven’t watched yet but I will. Just to say that for myself, growing up in the late 80s and 90s, I was so steeped in homophobia all around me that I daren’t even entertain the idea of coming out. It took me until I was 29 to start coming to terms with it.

It was very hard when I was young, but I suppose I already knew what I was, even though I was desperate not to acknowledge it. Girls and young women don’t even seem to know what a lesbian is now, so the choice to ignore the homophobia doesn’t even exist, and where as back in the day we’d be pushed into compulsory heterosexuality, which is at least not permanent, now they’re chopping off their breasts and shooting up on testosterone.

I suppose if I was to make an analogy, because I love a good analogy, lesbianism for me and a lot of other older women was like the door to the attic that we’d always been warned to avoid, because there’s something nasty lurking behind it. Girls and young women think the door has been opened, but now a big sparkly bookcase full of queer theory books has been pushed right behind it, so what they think is lesbianism, is just an endless labyrinthine mindfuck of confusing diversion. Mean while us lesbians are trapped behind the bookcase, listening to them read all the nonsense and we’re desperately trying to push the bookcase aside, which someone is nailing to the floor while shouting insults at us from the other side.

Two more really important points made in this piece:

• The online community Thomasin found helped to give her 'scripts,' phrases, answers in order to access particular pathways at the GIDs service.

• she found the adult service had much less gatekeeping and it was pretty much 'ask and you get.'

For me this is significant:

• young people are presenting at GIDS with GD and wilfully hiding other issues after self diagnosing from the Internet.

• potentially larger mh issues may be missed. These could become a larger issue and/ or be significant causes of the GD.

• if waiting lists are long young people may not get adequate investigations and assessments, correct mh support before moving to the adult services which appear to have much less gatekeeping. Young adults are still very vulnerable at 18.

That is one good analogy. I feel exactly the same. I work in education and the number of young people identifying as trans as basically rocketed by 100% if that is mathematically possible. None to 100 in a few short years since I started the job. Students don’t know I am a lesbian at work, how they dont know is a mystery as I am clearly NGC!
I get lectures from these young people about the number of different sexualities and genders that are out. It is predominantly autistic yp who are now self identifying. Some of these are boys in bras and thongs wearing heels, who tend to gravitate towards the more barbie doll gender conforming staff and peers. In the past such boys would have turned out effeminate gay men or possibly involved in the drag scene. Now they will turn out chemically castrated with all the health problems that are related to messing with hormones-inc early cancer. This has already happened with some of my trans friends, mostly now in their fifties, the rabbit hole goes deep.

Thomasin spoke at the Leeds WPUK meeting last week. It was very moving to hear this young woman being so honest about her teenage years and her struggles.

The video of her talk is up on YT now