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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

‘I’m not trans any more’

24 replies

JoeGargery · 18/07/2019 23:20

Apologies if this has already been posted; I couldn’t see it.
Link from Janice Turner’s Twitter.
Very moving video by a detransitioning young woman.

OP posts:
JoeGargery · 19/07/2019 22:41

Did anyone else cry watching this?

OP posts:
JackyHolyoake · 19/07/2019 22:48

This is a wonderful and very strong young woman and I am delighted she has eventually come to terms with her womanhood. I suggest we all wrap her in our sisterhood and give her all the comfort she needs in every way she needs it. To this lovely young woman I say: "Welcome!" And come and meet your sisters here on Mumsnet [you do not need to be a Mum to be here.]

NotTerfNorCis · 19/07/2019 22:59

Quite a few people in the comments saying they also detransitioned.

FruHagen · 19/07/2019 23:21

Yes, I cried.

failingatlife · 19/07/2019 23:32

She is a very astute young woman. She totally nailed how it is an ideology similar to religion. She was so honest and brave to tell her story. I believe that gender dysphoria should be treated as a physiological condition which is very unlikely to be cured by transitioning. This brave woman (sorry don't know her name) and others starting to speak out are proof of this.

InsulatedCup · 20/07/2019 07:53

It should be required watching for every clinician working in Gender Clinics.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 20/07/2019 08:12

Cried.
It's why we fight

JoeGargery · 20/07/2019 14:07

Glad I’m not alone in this. I totally agree this should be required viewing- but not only for those clinicians in gender clinics; for CAMHS, GPs, community paediatricians, too.

Thanks, @OldCrone; I hadn’t seen the previous thread Blush (one was after this Smile) but hope it was helpful for some others who also hadn’t seen it.

OP posts:
pombear · 21/07/2019 00:39

I've posted on another thread just how amazing I think Alfie's video is.

I took another look at the comments under Alfie's video. So many supportive comments.

But there's one poster who demonstrates the dark underbelly, those who don't want Alfie to speak up in the way she is doing.

JennOscura
4 days ago
It sounds to me like you are trans. You just don't want to deal with the hassle of medical transition. Speaking for myself, medical transition is the best way to deal with dysphoria. Since I got my Sex Reassignment Surgery my dysphoria is virtually non existent. I only really have dysphoria issues if I forget to take my hormones. I wish you the best. But I know how much dysphoria sucks on top of dealing with autism. I encourage you to see a gender therapist and think long and hard about this. Is the hassle of medical transition worse than the dysphoria? Not for me. You can transition without bottom surgery. You could just do top surgery and HRT. Or even just HRT.

JennOscura. (Who, on looking at their other videos, seems to be a disturbed, isolated, angry adult male in the US who identifies as trans.)

Jenn wants women like Alfie to stay 'true' to the trans. Encouraging her towards 'top surgery' (mastectomy) and HRT (a misnomer - not 'replacement hormones' but cross-sex, damaging-to-health hormones).

Most others in the comments seem to have listened to and supported what Alfie is saying about her own experience, including posters who are trans-identifying females.

Jenn, an adult male, does not. Jenn dismisses Alfie's testimony. Jenn wants Alfie to be trans.

Why would that be, Jenn? Why are you pushing surgery, and damaging hormones on Alfie?

(Rhetorical question for many on this board. We know why. They're just doing it in plain sight now)

InsulatedCup · 21/07/2019 07:52

Tony Atwood in his textbook on Asbergers Syndrome, describes how both males and females with ASD can have difficulty with gender but that it tends to resolve over time (several years).

This isn't new information - it's been out there for years.

I cannot see why gender clinics are so gung ho with medical intervention with this group of people. Well except that being transgender and a lifelong patient is now a wonderful and a human right...

JoeGargery · 22/07/2019 23:53

@pombear - how depressing. That’s made me so angry.

OP posts:
teflontania · 22/07/2019 23:59

This brave woman (sorry don't know her name) and others starting to speak out are proof of this.

In any area of life there will be a certain number of people unhappy with the choices they have made. You cannot take a handful of detransitioners and say they are proof of anything when the overwhelming majority of trans people are content with the path they have taken.

TemporaryPermanent · 23/07/2019 08:08

True about some people always regretting any choice. But you can and should ask HUGE questions about the context and information around that choice, the influences and people involved. Especially when the consequences are so huge, the people making the choices so young and the numbers changing rapidly.

DanaPhoenix · 23/07/2019 08:15

Wow pombear thank you for posting about that comment. Very telling. Very.

Lancelottie · 23/07/2019 08:25

You can only know that ‘the majority’ are happy if you have decent research to measure that.

And the effects of incorrect diagnosis leading to hormone ‘treatment’, mastectomies, balding, and irrevocably broken voices are minor details to be shrugged off as ‘oh well, can’t make everybody happy’. These girls matter.

Lancelottie · 23/07/2019 08:25

are not minor details

timeforakinderworld · 23/07/2019 08:34

It also makes me think about the pressure these women are under to look and "feel" feminine. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and looking back at photos - we all (me and my female friends) looked far more natural and yes, butch, than the young women today. I'm not surprised that so many young women seem to be rejecting this and then thinking that if they reject it, they are not actually women to start with. (And yes, I know that dysphoria is more than a rejection of stereotypes but I think societal expectations of gender presentation is contributing to the situation).

teflontania · 23/07/2019 10:44

You can only know that ‘the majority’ are happy if you have decent research to measure that.

Given that you believe anything trotted out by the likes of Get The L Out, whose reports and surveys never seem to state how many people they've spoken to, that's a bit rich. If they'd actually surveyed any decent number don't you think they'd be crowing about it?

ifigoup · 23/07/2019 12:57

For anyone who's interested, this is a transcript of most of the video:

“I’m not transgender, and I’d like to, I suppose, un-come out as transgender. I’ve been out since I was 16 and thought I was transgender since I was 15. I’m 21 now, so, yes, it’s quite a good chunk of time. But it’s, um, it’s worn off, I suppose, is all you could say about it. It is a bit more complex than that … It has often seemed to me like the only option is to medically transition and become a man, but that’s not what I want. I don’t want to be a lifelong medical patient. I don’t want to be psychologically dependent on hormones that are made in a lab and injected into me. And whilst the idea of having a penis is still a very enticing one, the idea of being hospitalised every five to ten years to have a silicone rod in my penis surgically replaced is a horrifying one. What I want, and what I’ve always wanted, is peace with myself. Not a surgically altered self, but my own self. I want to feel an organic love for my body, this body that … I was lucky to be born into and to inhabit. When I was 15, 16, 17, I didn’t lay in bed wishing to be a boy. I lay in bed praying out of sheer desperation to a god I didn’t believe in to 'Please just make me a girl. I just want to be okay with being a girl. I’ll do anything to not be trans.' I wanted to find ways of dealing with my gender issues that aren’t medically transitioning, and those ways weren’t presented to me. The only solution that was presented was chopping your breasts off, injecting yourself with hormones and becoming a man. And that’s not the life that I want, it really isn’t. If I can do something, if I can have a way of dealing with my gender issues that isn’t doing all of those things, that’s the one … I want to do. Now’s my time to make peace with femaleness, with womanhood. Even though I’m not very good at being a woman, in the sense that I get gender dysphoria, a woman is still what I am. A dysfunctional, wonky, weird, gay, autistic and completely authentic woman. I don’t know how to tell people about this. The immediate feeling when I think about revealing to people that I’m not going to transition after all is intense embarrassment, humiliation and uselessness. I feel embarrassed that I could get it so wrong for such a long time whilst being so convinced that I was right: as though I was possessed by someone else entirely. Someone else isn’t really the right word, though – I think it was more like I was possessed by something, by an ideology. Like I believed in a god that I’m recently starting to not believe in. I really never understood the power of flawed thinking in large groups before, but now I’ve been sucked into it for years of my life, I feel like I have a much better understanding of what leads people to religious bigotry and to cults. And I don’t think that’s an unreasonable comparison to make. I can’t understate the role social media has played in all this. It’s glaringly obvious to me now that which part of the internet you inhabit for large chunks of time has serious effects on your brain and your view of the world. I’m the kind of person who isn’t easily sucked into herd mentalities, and I’ve never been sucked into any mentality like I was into this one. So coming out of the other side of this is a huge life lesson and a humbling one. Even my fiercely logical mind couldn’t resist the ultimately contradictory logic underlying in most online trans spaces. I just tried to wrangle logic haphazardly into the contradictions. Thankfully, though, I can only lie to myself for so long. I don’t ‘feel like’ a woman and I don’t ‘feel like’ a man: I am female and that’s all there is to it. I don’t need to feel like anything to justify the fact that my female body likes to do, say and think things that women aren’t supposed to do. The terminology of identifying as male or female was always something I was a bit suspicious of, and now I fully loathe it. I identify as … a metalhead, … a painter, I identify as left-wing politically. I don’t identify as male or female. You can’t identify as male or female, or intersex – you just are. It’s an immutable reality, not a wishy-washy identity. This is such an obvious statement that it feels impossible that this simple truth could be a completely life-altering conclusion to come to, but that’s how deep in this I had got myself. I spent the last five years doing mental gymnastics, sometimes agile and impressive, and sometimes clunky and contradictory. Like I said, I was desperately trying to wrangle impossible logic around an untruth because I was too far into third to turn back. Or not, as is the case. Otherwise I wouldn’t be sitting here, would I? You’re not too far in to turn back. I’m not sure where to go from here. When it feels right I’ll tell my parents, and I know they’ll be happy to hear it, because the concerns they had about my 16-year-old self are ones that I’m just starting to understand as a 21-year-old. I suppose wisdom really does come with age, doesn’t it? But, um, yeah: you try telling that to an isolated, self-loathing, gender-nonconforming 16-year-old who wants to transition. I mean, you’re gonna run into some issues. I don’t want to do a big dramatic announcement that I’m detransitioning or not being trans any more. I’m just going to take it easy, and slowly, one relationship at a time, one person at a time. My name is legally changed, so that’s going to be a challenge. I’m not even sure if I want to change it back yet. And I still bind, I’m still binding right now, but that’s – I see it as part of my butchness, you know, it’s … not to do with being trans, to be honest. It’s … gender dysphoria that I … deal with in my own way now and I don’t want to go through all the things that I was kind of being, I guess, pressured by these online spaces to go and do … But there’s plenty of time for all of this, is my point … It’s the key thing that I’ve realised: that you’re never too far in to turn around and take a different path, never … I know that there are lots of people who were just like me, really, who were going through this same thing, and I have a funny feeling that there will be lots, lots more of us in the next few years, as more people who were sort of teenagers and nonbinary and trans at the moment get into their early twenties. I think there’s gonna be more of us. So if I can make this resource that maybe people can relate to, then good, because we are … people like us, sort of the masculine girls, butch lesbians … who were born between … the years of 1995 and 2000, really, sort of, have been the guinea pigs for this, for this, whatever this is, whatever’s going on in the trans community at the moment … I’m out the other side now and I really hope that some more people who are struggling with this can get out to the other side, because it’s nice.”

Lancelottie · 23/07/2019 13:01

I beg your pardon, Teflon? Where have I even mentioned 'get the L out'?

I'm a former research scientist and current science editor who believes that if you want to make a claim, you measure and publish the data that lead to that claim.

teflontania · 23/07/2019 13:18

Glad to hear it. So you'd no doubt support groups like Get The L Out being transparent and stating how many responses they've had for their surveys? After all '50% of lesbians think...' could be based on 10 responses. I'm sure they've had hundreds, if not thousands though.

I'm a former research scientist and current science editor who believes that if you want to make a claim, you measure and publish the data that lead to that claim.

Lancelottie · 23/07/2019 13:42

We are at cross purposes, Teflon. I was referring to your statement that the overwhelming majority of transitioners are happy with their choice.

DeRigueurMortis · 23/07/2019 13:49

Thanks for posting OP.

It's a brilliant and very insightful video.

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