Chair designed to "prevent manspreading", your thoughts?

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www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/manspreading-chair-design-laila-laurel-award-brighton-university-a9008746.html

So a student designed a chair for men, it goes inward at the edges and has raised edges to force anyone sitting on it to sit with their legs closed otherwise it would be uncomfortable to sit on. She got an award for it and it's been posted all over the media as some groundbreaking idea.

I do however, wonder just how practical this is. If it's installed in public areas or public transport how can you ensure only men sit on it? What if for example the only seat left on a train is one of them and the last passenger to get on is a woman who then has to choose between standing or sitting on an uncomfortable chair? And of course any seats reserved for "men only" mean less seats for women.

btw if you were to flip the chair around and sit on it back-to-front, then you can sit any way you want.

Bags on seats irritates me far more than manspreading

I'm the opposite. I am very comfortable asking someone to move their bag please, or simply gesturing, and people are generally fine moving a bag off a seat.

I am not comfortable asking a bloke "can you close your legs please" or gesturing to his thigh area or whatever else you might have to do/say to draw attention to it.

"IME women are equally as bad if not worse in most professional environments I've worked in. This is likely why almost every study conducted on the subject of preferred leadership concludes that women would rather work for men than other women (although I'm sure it'll be dismissed as internalized misogyny).

In the current thread about expectations of women's attire, majority of posters are saying that women have criticised them the most. Same with the thread on here about bullying in the workplace.

I'm not disagreeing to be a contrarian but the bulk of the evidence I've seen doesn't support your claim."

If the worst thing you can come up with that women do is "bullying in the workplace", you're really stretching it. Also what does bullying in the workplace have to do with men physically encroaching on to women's space just because they can? Try again.

Anyway the worst bullies in the workplace are men. I once came across a man who was proud to say he'd sacked 20,000 people at BT. Find me a woman who could boast that. People just have different standards for female behaviour.

"They are more likely to be violent, sure, but that isn't the same as being a bully."

Yes it is. When men do it, it's to exert power over others.

I can't say I've come across manspreading but bags on seats- all the time.

I don't understand the mentality of blithely ignoring a train carriage filling up and only moving your bag when asked.

I see no-one came back to talk about the scold's bridle, because a man being physically restricted is exactly the same as a woman being tortured.

Would the people here getting upset at men being called bullies, like to comment on the type of man who invented and used a contraption like that on women?

I found 'ladylike' sitting with my knees together unnatural and uncomfortable

I’m a total manspreader as I just don’t feel comfortable with my knees close together. It’s something I’m keenly aware of tho, especially when I wear skirts. We can’t be the only ones here like that!

I didn't comment on your scold's bridle. The chairs don't remind me of a scold's bridle. They remind me of those awful Charles Rennie Macintosh chairs which look equally uncomfortable.

I haven't said anything about being upset at men being called bullies.

I'm female and I sit like that surely as long as nobody is trying to sit next to you it's fine?

I can't say I've come across manspreading but bags on seats- all the time.

You're not much of a public transport type of person tho, maybe it doesn't happen much on your flights to Panama or wherever lol.

Anyway men put their bags on seats as often as women do, it's still far less awkward to ask a bloke to move his bag then to close his crotch.

You're not much of a public transport type of person tho, maybe it doesn't happen much on your flights to Panama or wherever lol

I use London Underground a lot. I've never flown anything other than cattle truck class.

Your "lol" makes you sound about 14 btw

surely as long as nobody is trying to sit next to you it's fine?

Exactly That's the whole point - manspreaders do not engage when someone tries to sit next to them, particularly when a woman sits next to them. They retain their claim on the space.

Men who sit legs apart without getting into anyone s space are not manspreaders.

Yes. Being comfortable is fine, up to the point it impinges on someone else's space.

Most people can manage it eg the other day I got on a crowded train, someone moved their bag off the seat, beckoned to me and moved their legs diagonally to be out of the way of the seat. This is normal considerate behaviour.

If the worst thing you can come up with that women do is "bullying in the workplace", you're really stretching it. Also what does bullying in the workplace have to do with men physically encroaching on to women's space just because they can? Try again.

I wasn't attempting to 'come up with the worst thing' I could find. I'll leave the victim Olympics to you.

I mentioned the workplace bullying because you categorically stated that women don't bully which is rubbish. Even on this very forum the AIBU threads are notorious for nasty comments - like when that woman dropped her baby on it's head causing a dent and came on here frantically asking for help (a fair few female posters took it as an opportunity to make horrible comments and take potshots).

I'd imagine many men probably don't bother altering their leg position because.....well, fuck it. They're probably not too concerned about the random stranger next to them. People are often selfish and don't check their privilege if they don't need to - like how you don't see many women kicking up fuss about the expectation that men pay for dates (quite the opposite!).

Yes it is. When men do it, it's to exert power over others.

Now come on, you just said in the post previous to yours that I've quoted here that bullying isn't the same!

Bullies can be violent, they can also impinge on others spaces which is more likely if they are in fact larger. That doesn't mean all three things always happen at the same time, or they are all equally concerning. Nor does it mean that male bullying is somehow more morally compromised than female bullying. Notwithstanding what a man you once met said.

When you are saying opposite things in concurrent posts it's difficult to avoid concluding you are making whatever argument makes women seem morally superior to men.

I'm pretty sure women are less inclined to indulge in physical bullying and intimidation and 'ownership' of space, which is the context here. And it doesn't really help that many blokes are probably doing it without intent, just oblivious of the effect on other people.

Well, any bloke who has read this sort of discussion who carries on regardless is a dick.

Most people can manage it eg the other day I got on a crowded train, someone moved their bag off the seat, beckoned to me and moved their legs diagonally to be out of the way of the seat. This is normal considerate behaviour

It is considerate behaviour- whether most people do it before they are asked to, I'm less sure about.

"Of course. But I'm curious as to whether they get manspreaded into as much as women."

Yep, it happens just as much to me, and I think it is a combination of things. Some people are just selfish and ignorant and will do anything to stop people sitting next to them.
However, I have always found it uncomforable to sit with my legs together, because my upper leg muscles (quads and adductors) are quite large, and after a while they start to tremor or in a worse case scenario, they start to cramp up.
If I am sitting on public transport, I never sit in a middle seat between two people, I would rather stand. If I sit in an inside seat then I angle my body towards the window.

They need to spread to make room for their huge bollocks don't they. Maybe designing some underwear to lift the male genitals up and hold them in place at the front might be a better idea.

Or you know, for men to keep their legs closed and not invading the space of any one else.

Look down a train carriage. It's always male knees or feet poking out into the aisle. I have tall female friends and they manage to not do this. But you know, big hairy bollocks need space and for us to be impressed at how much they need to spread due to the size of their genitals 🙄

I'm pretty sure women are less inclined to indulge in physical bullying and intimidation and 'ownership' of space, which is the context here.

Yes, but men on average are larger and I would say that is the main reason those who are bullies use their physicality in that way. You don't generally see people who are smaller framed who do, it's just not very effective, if they want to be jerks they develop other strategies.

I agree in the question of seats it's the physical element that is the point mostly, although I do think others will use other strategies to mark out their space. The question of other types of bullies was a response to people making some more general claims that seemed pretty unfounded.

"I have tall female friends and they manage to not do this."

I very much suspect that your tall, female friends, don't have "extra bits" dangling below them, unless of course they are a special kind of "laydee"?

I wasn't attempting to 'come up with the worst thing' I could find. I'll leave the victim Olympics to you.

I wasn't talking about victims, I was talking about perpetrators. You decided to nitpick at a word I used, when the context was clearly physical bullying, which women as a group don't do (yes I'm sure there are some exceptions, yawn, but we're talking about aggregate male behaviour here). And I can counter your stupid point anyway - Philip Green, Harvey Weinstein - their workplace bullying is so bad it makes the papers and goes to court. Can you think of a female equivalent? No you can't.

I mentioned the workplace bullying because you categorically stated that women don't bully which is rubbish. Even on this very forum the AIBU threads are notorious for nasty comments - like when that woman dropped her baby on it's head causing a dent and came on here frantically asking for help (a fair few female posters took it as an opportunity to make horrible comments and take potshots).

See above. Stop kneejerking and think about the context of what is being said.

I'd imagine many men probably don't bother altering their leg position because.....well, fuck it. They're probably not too concerned about the random stranger next to them.

They're bullies. It's physical intimidation. Subtle, but it's there.

People are often selfish and don't check their privilege if they don't need to - like how you don't see many women kicking up fuss about the expectation that men pay for dates (quite the opposite!).

Another random "women do it too or do something worse". Your argument is all over the place.

Can't believe men's testicles are being used as an excuse for this. Wait, yes I can! Pity the poor menz with their large testicles in their scolds bridles.

Now come on, you just said in the post previous to yours that I've quoted here that bullying isn't the same!

I said bullying in the workplace isn't the same. Does this really need spelling out? It was a pathetic attempt to take the focus off men who are the only people who behave like this in public. Women, even big or tall women don't shove themselves into other people's spaces. It's a male thing, hence it being called "manspreading" and everybody knowing what that means.

Bullies can be violent, they can also impinge on others spaces which is more likely if they are in fact larger. That doesn't mean all three things always happen at the same time, or they are all equally concerning. Nor does it mean that male bullying is somehow more morally compromised than female bullying. Notwithstanding what a man you once met said.

I'd say sacking 20,000 people or in the case of Weinstein and Green, sexual assault is far worse than anything you can scrabble around to find that women apparently do too.

When you are saying opposite things in concurrent posts it's difficult to avoid concluding you are making whatever argument makes women seem morally superior to men.

Women are morally superior to men. It's not hard to notice if you've got your eyes open. We don't do the appalling things that men do.

And yes I think the word "bully" got jumped on because it is a moral judgement. It's not abstract or neutral like "violence". People hate bullies, bullies are bad, so if men get called bullies by golly we'd better make sure women are labelled that way too. Otherwise we might have to think about men and their motivations and behaviour and that would never do.

I would say that constantly deriding men in general on the basis of what a very small number of them do is a form of bullying, certainly when it's used as ammunition against individual men who don't do these things - as a sort of emotional shaming tactic.

The typical justification is that men statistically commit the large majority of crime and that it's impossible to tell the good men from the bad (also that every man is culpable as a member of the male class and needs to commit to resolving the issues caused by 'his' class).

I'd give this argument more credence if it wasn't used in such a blinkered way. However, the lens never seems to be turned inwards.

70% of parents who murder their children are female. Surely then we can't trust women with children as we don't know which are the 'good' mothers. As a member of the female class, this is your responsibility to sort out, not mine as a man. Why aren't you jumping to it?

Studies have also shown that sexual abuse committed by a female has tripled in the last decade, and other studies involving interviews with victims have concluded that abuse by a female is generally more psychologically damaging to the victim.

However, you never see feminists taking ownership of these issues in the way they expect men to do when the statistics show the perpetrators to be statically male majority. IMO there are plenty of individuals who use the feminist banner as justification for freely bashing men, but don't really seem to do anything to help women in general.

If we are expected to sort the problems which a small proportion of our class commit, does the same apply to all white people whose class perpetrated horrific slavery, or black people whose class commit more knife crime, Chinese people who class persecuted the Falun Gong, etc, etc?

Nobody's saying that male violence is OK, but I disagree with using it as an excuse to constantly bash men, especially when you're actually more likely statistically to choke on your food than be murdered by your spouse. Anybody who points out that most men don't murder women is then accused of WATMing or called a misogynist in the same way that some TRAs use the 'homophobe' accusation to shut down dissent.

Do you take responsibilities for the actions of Donald Trump as a fellow white person?