Witches v Wizards

[DtPeabodysLoosePants]

Chatting with dd(12) tonight and explaining to her that lesbians are being told they need to accept lady dick (I didn't use this phrase though!) and if not they are Transphobes and that men who say they are women are calling themselves lesbians but are heterosexually attracted. I was given her best WTF face and then she moved quickly on as she does to ask me this:

Why are witches viewed as bad but wizards are seen as good?

Answer: the patriarchy. But it's really made me think of how women throughout history have been persecuted and oppressed.

We saw a re-enactment of Joan of Arc's execution at Warwick castle and it reduced me to tears. It was a real eye opener for me to see it acted out rather than just read the history. But yes, it all boils down to the oppression of women as it was ever thus.

I bought her a couple of age appropriate feminist books a while ago and am doing my best to raise her as a feminist with excellent boundaries.

How did this all start? When did men decide they were in charge?

Well Wizards aren't male Witches.

Really? She was looking at our Harry Potter books collection which is what prompted the question and of course in there a witch is s female equivalent to a wizard.

Thousands of years ago when they realised how easy it was to hit a cavewoman?

I think originally Wizard were of higher class than Witches / Warlocks.
Wizards were employed by royalty, witches were poor.

Wizards haven't necessarily been thought of as good. The view of both differs over time. Men were accused of witchcraft too, when that was something that was being tossed around.

And as said, they aren't necessarily used in ways that are equivalent.

In any specific fiction book the author decides how things are, and why. So it really depends on the book.

Because JK Rowling maybe.
In Tolkien Gandalf and Radagast and were good, and Saruman had been, but was very much evil, as was Sauron.
I read countless fantasy books as a teen, and wizards were mostly bad, but sometimes not too.
And when I think witches, I think of Terry Pratchett, and they weren't mostly bad.

And even in the Harry Potter series you have bad wizards....

When did men decide they were in charge?

I think the witchcraze that swept Europe, and lasted for hundreds of years, was the beginning of the end for women in the west. Some say France had a village with not a single female left. In England all girls , even as young as three, stripped naked as they search for marks and signs. Midwives and healers targeted the most: knowledge passed down died with their bodies. Daughters of witches whipped as they were forced to watch their mothers burn. How can we ever recover? How can we ever be the same after such persecution?

it's when people (men) had enough wealth to care about what happened to it after they died
hence, they cared about paternity
hence oppressing women

or it's what they say in Hitchhiker's guide, and coming down from the trees was a big mistake

Edinburgh was the centre of witch hunting I think. Was just excuse for men who didn’t like uppity women

Same as today though now they are called terfs the modern witch

Witch is an ambiguous word for all sorts of reasons. There are male witches for one thing (as PP have said, Wizard is not the male equivalent of Witch). Wicca - the modern religious practice of Witchcraft - emerged out of quite a patriarchal set of ideas early in the 20th century, though most modern Witches would probably tell you they are feminists. . At least, the ones I know would. Some men were also victims of the ‘Witch hunts’ of the 1600s, albeit a minority. It is true that many victims were older women, but also arguably property, grudges and fear played as much of a part as patriarchal attitudes.

Witchcraft and magic has always been viewed with suspicion I suppose but I hadn't realised men were also burned st the stake.
My own "knowledge" of wizards being held in suspicion comes from Disney's The Sword in the Stone It's one of my all time favourites. In that though Merlin is good and the witch bad. Fuck you Disney. M

I might have to make learning about this my next project.

Fear of the "otherness" of the female healer, the herbalist, the midwife, the sorceress I think has always been at the centre of the mistrust of witches ( from men). It's the embodiment of female "secret" power, the goddess archetype. Women have the ability to create life from seemingly nothing, and men have always hated that.

Well said Lady oftheCanyon. Also Wizards of either gender focus much more on the ceremonial

When did men decide they were in charge?

When private property came into being and the stronger, more aggressive sex took it upon themselves to ensure bloodline when passing it down.

Haven’t RTFT so this may have been brought up already...

Could be relevant that the idea of a wizard and wizards has always been rooted in fantasy, whereas for a very long time people thought (and in some places probably do still think) that witches and witchcraft were real?

Many, if not most, of the women accused of witchcraft in Europe and post-colonised North America were healers and herbalists.

Having read about the history of the persecution of these women, I am convinced that the fact these women knew how to prevent pregnancy and cause miscarriages (ie provide abortions) as well as ensure a safe birth, made them a threat to the patriarchy they operated in.

And their persecution did not merely coincide with the advent of doctors, who were, of course, exclusively males in these societies.

When medicine was first taught at university, it was not far removed from voodoo science. The doctors who graduated often did more harm than good, but despite this looked down upon the healers and herbalists who continued to look after the poor. On the whole, they supported the witch hunts. At an absolute minimum.

Because they couldn't accept that some old, usually poor and often marginalised woman could possibly cure the sick more successfully than them. The women were illiterate peasants but better than a doctor who graduated from a university?

Impossible.

Had to be witchcraft.

Overall a quarter of the victims of the witch craze were men, but the ratio varied a lot in different countries.

www.newstatesman.com/2018/11/quarter-people-executed-witchcraft-were-men-and-other-surprising-facts

Edinburgh was the centre of witch hunting I think

Scotland in general from what I recall. It tended to be places away from the more central sources of authority. Most witch trials were locally organised and came from either ill will of the "I want my neighbour's land" type, or superstition and hysteria. Where there was a stronger rule of law they seldom happened and if they did they seldom found people guilty of being witches.

Get her to read the Tiffany Aching series of books by Terry Pratchett about a girl learning how to be a witch and a woman.
Or look at Equal Rites where a girl imbude wizard magic meets the patriarchy head on.

Was there a correlation with women becoming post menopausal, when perhaps historically they would then move into a position of respect which men decided was obviously evil, and clearly of no fuckable value any more? Most witches killed were older women

I am thinking how women get a fresh creative peak at that points, and how in other menopausal animals the post menopausal female then leads the pack

property, grudges and fear

I thought these pretty much were the essence of patriarchy

Scotland in general from what I recall.

Not much has changed then.

Wizards are not all supposed to be good! Loads of bad wizards in books and films! And lots of good witches. And why on earth do you need to tell a 12 year old about men wanting to be lesbians? Is that something that you are expecting to affect her imminently?
Anyway, whoever said that witch hunts/paranoia was to do with the male medical profession is right i think.
Nothing to do with men being jealous of female essence..much to do with the realisation that there's money to be made in healthcare. When theres money at stake men take over ( see photograghy, film, computers).

So what I am saying is that a LOT of impressionable minions were manipulated to carry out the witch hunts by a small number of very calculating capitalists.
Thats my theory anyway.