Feminism 101

[BoronationStreet]

Hi all. I have been lurking on these boards for a few years now and have posted once or twice under different names.

I have recently started following the GC community on Reddit and today I came across a post that was about how "libfems" and "liberals" are horrible, morons, wolves in sheep's clothing etc. The post was in relation to sex workers and it claimed that libfems basically support sex work and ignore the fact that much of it is done against women's wills etc.

I googled libfem and it wasn't much help because it seemed to me to just describe feminism but was also full of academic and scientific jargon that I found confusing.

I am actually an educated woman but I am really confused about feminism now and I would love some help. I feel quite foolish to ask this of you all, but could someone kindly explain the different types of feminists in simple terms without bashing the types that you don't agree with?

Honestly I find the idea that feminists have different groups that slag each other off massively disappointing but I suppose that is simply a byproduct of the world we live in.

I will say, I've never gotten the impression of any divides on MN, which is where the majority of my feminist info has come from until now.

There's a thread on here of mine called Feminism 101: The creation of Patriarchy

Otherwise this is an excellent link:

factcheckme.wordpress.com/radfem-101/

Liberal feminists, as I understand the definition, take the view that women should have absolute bodily autonomy which includes the right to choose freely to be a prostitute or a stripper or a porn actress.

Radical feminism believes, as I understand it, that those choices can't be made in a vacuum and the normalisation of these activities supports the patriarchy and that no one makes a truly free choice.

Other people, including me and certain right wingers e.g Ben Shapiro think that these activities are inherently damaging to the good of society as a whole and are incompatible with human dignity.

Radical feminists and right wingers would agree on a local level it is damaging and unpleasant for women and children, and even men, to have to live in an area where prostitution and strip clubs are active.

It might be helpful to search for the different waves of feminism to give an understanding of its evolution.

1st wave - suffragettes, women's enfranchisement
2nd wave - women's liberation includes radical feminism
3rd wave - liberal feminism as described by lass above
4th wave - intersectional feminism, thought of as feminisms current incarnation

Worth noting that radical feminism is enjoying a bit of a revival, I was too young first time round but am embracing it now.

Also worth mentioning I am still learning and by no means an expert authority on the subject.

So are the majority of feminists on MN radical feminists? Also where do libfems stand on GC?

That link is great and I'll definitely read it but I'm asking more about the different types of feminists and also why the ones on the GC boards in Reddit heap scorn on libfems.

I have always considered myself a very liberal person and I'd never vote Tory. But I also am GC and have massive issues with the trans agenda and how it disproportionately affects women's rights.

I suppose I am trying to figure out what most aligns with my beliefs as I had no idea there were factions within the feminist community.

I just don't think anything other than radical feminism is recognizable as feminism.

Ok I suppose "factions" was the incorrect term and I apologise. I do think that my overall point was clear and it's pointless to pick apart how I phrased my questions. But cheers @SpartacusAutisticusAHF. That's me told.

Thank you everyone for your input. It is obviously an extremely nuanced topic and is worth researching more thoroughly.

I always considered myself a feminist but I never really cared until I peaked after reading the feminism boards on MN over the past couple of years.

I think it's ludicrous that so many MNetters hide the fem boards...it's like putting your head in the sand.

Intersectional feminists are lib fems though, aren't they? They certainly seem to buy into the "sex work is work" line.

Here's the brilliant Madgalen Berns on the difference between 2nd wave feminism and intersectional feminism.

(Incidentally she also thinks 3rd wave = intersectional. I'm confused about 4th wave! I didn't think we were there yet?)

Interesting and informational thread.

I am quite averse to ideological purity, so view myself simply as a feminist. My viewpoints on all sorts of topics is a mix of rad fem, lib fem and intersectional I guess. :)

I'm happy to change my mind if facts and evidence make sense to do so. I tend to be pragmatic rather than paint myself into a corner because I feel compelled to toe a specific set of ideas and positions.

Agree with other posters I thought that liberal and intersectional feminism were both 3rd wave but I read about intersectional being described as 4th recently and assumed that as I'm a bit new to the theory side of things that I'd missed a bit of my education.

Quick Google search for 4th wave brings up this wiki page but not sure how much wiki can be relied on for accuracy.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-wave_feminism

I thought that third wave feminism was all about intersectionality. Is the fourth wave very distinct from third wave?

Some info on Vox.

Third wave style liberal feminism reflects the shift from liberal to neo-liberal.

Yes. I think, OP, when people use "libfem" as a pejorative, what they're usually talking about is third wave feminism aka neoliberal feminism.

This is the one that's pro-trans, pro-sex work and pro-prostitution. Because it's empowering to centre dick.

I do not call it feminism myself.