Kristina says as a male trans woman we have no right...

[TruthOnTrial]

....to expect we can join women's sports.

She was a former football player, and is talking on the BBC 2 programme The Transwoman Athlete Dispute with Martina Navratilova and the science, which sports bodies didn't have when making global decisions upon women. Caster semenya also appears

All true comments.

No, I presume no actual women were asked at all.

The facts rules allow it, and its sinister that this includes privacy of single sex changing rooms and spaces.

There is also a comment about using women's changing rooms, it being paralleled with asking a woman how she would get on in a male room?!

*FA's rules (not facts rules)

Yes, Kristina still went on to play, which is down to the rules that allow it

The rules which made girls & women's football mixed sex were written by the FA & Gendered Intelligence following consultation with trans people, presumably male transpeople who wanted to play in women's teams?
Were women asked?

So the question is, TruthOnTrial, what is the distinction between Kristina and the "aggressive" people you referred to earlier? One's rude about their right to compromise women's sport and one is polite about it?

I regard that as a distinction without a difference.

And I resent the centring of this distinction without a difference on a media discussion about women's sports.

So Kristina's POV is that male trans women shouldn't play women's sports, unless trans women have already lobbied hard on their behalf to make that happen

I think that sums up Kristina's position.

It's still removing female only sports, however they justify it to themselves.

Yes, I guess it's the old [gross] adage of many ways to skin a rabbit

The outcome has been the same, no reference whatsoever to the affected party, the group woman

I was very surprised at the lack of aggressive that I have come to associate with this. That, and the reference to themself as male.

If all this represents is just some slithering...

22 Mar 2016 FA
'TRANS GUIDANCE NOW AVAILABLE FOR LEAGUES, CLUBS AND INDIVIDUALS'
(extract)
The Football Association has written and released guidance for football on ways to include trans people.

FA chief executive Martin Glenn has endorsed the guidance as an important tool to ensure all communities are encouraged to participate in football.

He said: "This guide shows how to engage trans people appropriately and help you access this talent pool.

"Understandably, it covers the basics so if you need further advice there are links to more information and contacts at the end of the guide.”

Using case studies, legislation and testimonials from trans people involved in football, the guide was produced for clubs, leagues and other groups and individuals in football, in conjunction with Gendered Intelligence, an organisation which provides helpful tips and support on how the 'T' community can best be embraced.

The FA’s corporate affairs manager (Equality & Diversity), Funke Awoderu, is keen for County FAs and grassroots and semi-professional clubs to make use of the document." (continues)

www.thefa.com/news/2016/mar/22/guidance-trans-people-in-football

And is that FA Guidance straight out of the Stonewall playbook?

And is that FA Guidance straight out of the Stonewall playbook?

The lobby groups predate Stonewall.
Stonewall were lobbied.

Edward Lord was involved in FA diversity at FA, I think he was on the board?
Edward Lord was also involved with the lobbying of Stonewall at the time Ruth Hunt became CEO

Oh look, the FA is supportive of heterosexual men. It's hardly a shocker is it?

Interesting run of discussion/investigation into commercial lobbying on R4 over the coming weeks

They have been an elected member of the City of London Court of Common Council since February 2001, most recently re-elected in March 2017.

Also chair of swimming association.

OBE JP

They have been an elected member of the City of London Court of Common Council since February 2001, most recently re-elected in March 2017.

Also chair of swimming association

Who, Edward Lord?

(for reference, his blog says that he uses both he/him & they/them pronouns)

I don't see a difference between aggressive threatening and coercive manipulation, frankly. Neither does a women's sector analysis of any encroachment of female boundaries by males.

Agreed. It's the menace behind, "I asked nicely" and exposes that it's a fiction that women have the right to refuse, withhold permission, or maintain boundaries.

Yes R0wan and the OBE JP. Have I screwed up! I just copied and pasted, they were not my words, they are from readily available internet matter

No, no male should be anywhere near female sport. That goes without saying, or did until fairly recently when we apparently forgot all the reasons for having separate female sport to begin with as 'everyone is equal and not all men are stronger/faster than all women, therefor its totally fair for men to compete against women and if you disagree you are a nasty bigot'

When I say no male should be anywhere near female sport, I include Kristina in that, who acknowledges that no male should ever be near female sport, yet plays female sport as a male

I get that the ridiculous rules allow it. But someone well aware of the advantage they have and who actually cared about fairness and..women..would not take advantage, even if a stupid rule allowed it to happen. IMO anyway.

Yes, having knowledge of unfair advantage and continuing, regardless of whether you are asked/invited to join is still taking advantage.

This guide shows how to engage trans people appropriately and help you access this talent pool.

Anyone else feel this sounds very much like an advertisement to managers that male transitioners will be a useful addition to the team?

And the unspoken and ignored aspect, that women who transition will probably have a very limited chance of playing in a men’s team.

Anyone else feel this sounds very much like an advertisement to managers that male transitioners will be a useful addition to the team?

I think a number of sports orgs have had that lightbulb moment realising the advantage that can be gained by recruiting males into women's teams.

Yes AnyOldPrion

Are there examples of women who have transed and gone into competitive sports, ever winning anything?

Another transwoman shown as not practicing what they preach?

Must be something about their surnames beginning with H

And the unspoken and ignored aspect, that women who transition will probably have a very limited chance of playing in a men’s team.

It's difficult enough for women to get a spot in the ostensibly mixed sex sport of wheelchair rugby/murderball.

www.paralympic.org/news/big-read-women-wheelchair-rugby

There are some misgivings that the usual reason that women make the court at all is to do with the point system:

Only four players are on the court at any given time. The total points on the floor for a team cannot exceed 8, but this maximum is increased by 0.5 points for every female on the court.[2] This is done in order to insure parity in athletic ability on the court at any given time

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelchair_rugby_classification

Are there examples of women who have transed and gone into competitive sports, ever winning anything?
Yep, when they compete against women.
Eg Mack Beggs.

A lot of women who trans stay competing with women or just leave sports after their transition. Most men who trans compete against women. Lovely isn't it.

Are there examples of women who have transed and gone into competitive sports, ever winning anything?

Yes, English and British fell running champion Lauren Jeska,

Currently residing in a women's prison.