Domestic Violence ‘ not a gender thing’

[JessicaWakefieldSV]

Amongst other things, Steve Hansen the All Blacks coach, widely respected in NZ, has said domestic violence ‘isn’t a gender thing’ in NZ as he is trying to minimise the impact of including a player who committed it.

He’s not the only one who says this. I hear it a lot. I’ve only ever seen one poorly designed Dunedin study as ‘evidence’ both men and women abuse their partners.

I’d like to hear the thoughts of women here and if you know whether this is true or not.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/114049254/steve-hansen-backs-sevu-reece-says-domestic-violence-is-not-a-gender-thing

Clicky link i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/114049254/steve-hansen-backs-sevu-reece-says-domestic-violence-is-not-a-gender-thing

It’s primarily a sex thing, the perpetrator is predominantly male. And it’s certainly a very bad thing. It would not be any better if it wasn’t.

Yeah I don’t know why he felt the need to say this anyway? How does it make having an abuser in the team?

He's within an ace of blaming the guy's mum there, isn't he?

He's within an ace of blaming the guy's mum there, isn't he?

Well the guy isn’t a New Zealander, he grew up in Fiji. They also have a problem of normalisation and acceptance of violence towards women. That’s why NZ Rugby send teams of people out there to educate them about it. But parenting in NZ has nothing to do with them hiring this Fijian guy, does it. How the fuck does he get away with it?! It’s enraging

Hopefully someone who works in the field of DV will be along in a minute to provide links and stats, but my understanding is the following.

In the UK at any rate, you can massage the stats to make it look like the two sexes carry out DV if you do the following: count by number of "perpetrators" rather than incidents; and make no distinction between instigating violence and acting in self defence.

So - man repeatedly throttles, hits, raped partner = one "incident of DV". To protect herself, woman shoves him away on the occasion where she genuinely fears for her life = one "incident of DV". Oh look (MRA lies, damned lies and statistics reasoning), men and women commit DV at the same rate.

(Women do sometimes commit DV but are much less likely to.)

FermatsTheorem

That is my understanding too, most obvious in the self reporting ‘Dunedin study’ that men like Steve Hansen are relying on. I just want some hard stats or an organisation to speak out about it.

This is the MRA trope that "women do it too". They love to claim women are as violent as men. Even if we did, which we don't, in this case a man did it, he caused the harm and should take the consequences. Women = collateral damage in the quest for great rugby.

He is just trying to muddy the water. So what if his player was the only man who has ever hit a woman in the history of NZ, and all women regularly hit their partners? Would that make it okay to employ a violent criminal as a role model? And if not, then it isn’t ok now either.

He’s correct. It’s a sex thing.

But Babdoc is right.

Fermats that's exactly it, the reasons the uk stats are 7.9% of women and 4.2% of men are due to spurious counter allegations made by perpetrators which have to be recorded anyway. Also many perpetrators of abuse against men will also be men.

It's absolutely a gendered crime and always has been.

The problem is the stats can be interpreted numerous ways from numerous studies.
I've no doubt that both sexes commit acts of domestic violence, not that blinkered to suggest otherwise, and I've no doubt men are less likely to report it. What all the studies do show though is that domestic violence is a problem that requires a solution, so if there is a joint solution I'm all for it, but otherwise the studies show that the more serious (unfortunate that they have to be ranked) instances of domestic violence are against women, therefore these need tackled first.

Lundy Bancroft, working extensively with male perps in the states, says in his books that many men claim to be domestically abused by the partner they've battered in order to shift the blame and to try and paint the partner as deserving it/the abuser. He believes the real figures of f on m abuse are considerably lower than suggested.

It's rather like sexual crime. 2% committed by females according to the MoJ, so yes, probably better we focus on the 98% of the perpetrators for the moment. What is the purpose of men always rushing to point out 'women do it too' (despite it being tiny, tiny numbers)? Whataboutery that deflects blame and protects hurt feels, the same way newspapers report appalling crimes against women with as little reference to the perpetator and their involvement as possible. Because their male readership get indignant and upset and say it's anti men.

When it comes to who injures the most, it's men causing more harm to women. Significantly more. The men who pretend women are just as violent as men will equate a woman shoving a man with a man who knocks a woman out. They are both being violent and so we're all even now, supposedly.

For UK figures on domestic violence, the ONS also includes familial violence ie children to parents and vice versa. A large proportion of male victim figures come from this if you dig into the data.

For male victims ONLY they also include violence between current and previous partners of a woman. So if a woman’s ex partner attacks her new husband that is included.

Safe to say the majority of male victims of DV are from male perpetrators.

Plus then add the previously mentioned false equivalent of a woman being hospitalised multiple times and a man being shoved once in self defence or being called out for being a bastard.

I’m most shocked that no domestic violence charities or orgs in NZ are coming out to say anything at all in response to these comments and his inclusion.

He seems to be saying that so many NZers, Male and female, commit abuse so we won’t be able to keep them out of our sports teams since everyone is doing it. What a fucked attitude.

I’ve complained to NZR so many times it’s pointless me doing it, but if anyone else wants to:

nzrugby.co.nz/what-we-do/rugby-responsibility/respect-and-responsibility-review/complaints-management-service

When it comes to who injures the most, it's men causing more harm to women

When it comes to attempted and successful murder during DV it's almost exclusively men. The debate at the Scots parliament is transcripted and available online, the point was made that people at risk of serious injury and death from DV is women.

I've no doubt men are less likely to report it

The unthinking repetition of this 'poor stigmatised men' trope needs to stop.

Karen Ingala Smith has written an excellent blog post on domestic abuse statistics here

She cites research which demonstrates that men are more (not less) likely to report domestic abuse.

DidoAndHerLament

Thank you for that. I’m going to contact her.

He is right though, that it’s not a gender thing on its own as woman can and do abuse men and men abuse other men and woman can abuse woman in relationships.

It’s dangerous to categorise DV to just men on woman crime, as men are already less likely to speak up.

I agree with him about parenting too. If people are exposed to DV in their own families, they’re more likely to engage in it themselves.

I don’t understand what he’s said that’s offensive?

I don’t understand what he’s said that’s offensive?

No I don’t suppose you do Early.

Firstly, he’s responding to questions about his inclusion of a player who committed an act of violence against a woman on a public street. A player who is representing his adopted country ( he is one of the players NZ poached from the smaller islands who all struggle to even get games while we take their players ). There is no reason to bring it up, even if it were true. Responding to questions about the decision with: women do it too, is outrageous.
It’s not true.
There are not ‘two types of abusers’ either. That’s nonsensical and feeds into the tired excuse that men give about doing things when they’re ‘stressed’ or mentally unwell. It’s an excuse, and it’s disgusting. Hansen is also not a psychologist or expert in domestic violence, he’s a police Officer from an era when they would walk into an incident, tell the woman not to anger him, and leave. I know, police did it to me when I was a child. He has no idea if this person is truly reformed or not. He has no place commenting on this sort of thing at all. There was just a big report on homicide which touched on DV and the main reason males abuse their partners was found to be feeling superior, and feeling like they had ownership of their women.

What’s dangerous is presenting a picture that is not based on facts. Domestic violence and all violence, is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men. Saying men and women do it equally is a lie, it also affects resolving it if we can’t name the problem accurately.

Well you're demonstrating it really. The nice, inclusive refocusing to ensure all parties are mentioned, that men's needs and feelings are made clear as an important part, gently airbrushes away and makes less visible (and even frames as slightly politically incorrect to mention) the walloping great issue for people born with vaginas of two to three women a week being murdered by male partners, that less than 2% of rapes are prosecuted, and 'sex gone wrong' defences in court are working beautifully for men to conceal murder against women.

He didn’t say woman do it equally. He said it’s not restricted to males. Do you disagree with that?