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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

25 year old man stabs 13 year old pregnant "lover"

50 replies

Gingerkittykat · 05/07/2019 03:33

I don't normally touch the express with a barge poll but a story was linked on my Fb feed. The headline was "Girl,13, stabbed to death after she told lover, 25, she was pregnant"

The headline has since been changed to "'Man, 25 stabbed girl, 13, to death after she told him she was was pregnant with his baby'"

The articles talks about their secret year long relationship.

lets change that, pregnant 13 year old stabbed by man who groomed and abused her for a year.

And people say there is no need for feminism any more.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1143611/lucy-mchugh-stephen-nicholson-murder-stabbing-lovers-pregant?fbclid=IwAR1irfMyDX-sGideMWRG2agaNSz9ZQZzXEbLxbhRsRRmocOiMMjUjwG0nXc

OP posts:
upthine · 05/07/2019 11:26

That is SO fucked up. That poor, poor girl.

Do the journalists and editors seriously not see what happened there?

Are they actually that fucking dim?

A grown man had sex with a child and murdered her, and they report it like that?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 05/07/2019 11:46

Maybe they can’t report in such stark terms because the case is ongoing (says she hopefully) and not because they are blind.

DuMondeB · 05/07/2019 11:48

‘Known paedo accused of raping impregnating and murdering girl’

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 05/07/2019 11:52

Has he previous form?

Ereshkigal · 05/07/2019 11:53

I read that he had, can't remember where though.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 05/07/2019 11:55

God this is depressing. What the hell were the parents doing. Do they not have eyes? She was a beautiful child - yes child - and as parents of children we have radars of adults around them and how the interact with our children.

CruellaFeinberg · 05/07/2019 11:58

Lucy McHugh told the man she had become pregnant after a year-long relationship

and still they haven't changed it - this is under the photo

thenightsky · 05/07/2019 12:01

That poor child Sad I read the article and see he's yet another male who is into violent sex which involves grabbing his partner's throat. Sick bastard.

DuMondeB · 05/07/2019 12:17

Describing him as a ‘tattoo artist’ is a fucking stretch an’ all.

He looks to have been what actual tattlers describe as a ‘scratcher’ - someone with no training, working illegally from unregistered premises.

Photo found on one of his two Facebook profiles:

25 year old man stabs 13 year old pregnant "lover"
DuMondeB · 05/07/2019 12:20

This one is even worse.

25 year old man stabs 13 year old pregnant "lover"
MenuPlant · 05/07/2019 12:29

So the bbc believes that a 12 yo and a 25yo can be in a 'relationship', a sexual relationship, then, does it?

Doesn't see any difference to 2 25yo going out.

Ok bbc and wow. So you don't believe in the laws around age and consent then.

Righto.

sakura184 · 05/07/2019 12:48

Why do we need to know he's a tattoo artist after his crime! Remember Brock Turner and all the media could talk about was him being a swimmer

MoleSmokes · 06/07/2019 16:10

I was wondering about the role of the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO) and the Editors' Code in cases like this, so I have been looking at:

  • the IPSO website, including Editors' Code and Rulings on complaints
  • the related Editors' Code website
  • the article linked in the OP, in the Express by Ben Mitchell (Jun 21, 2019 | UPDATED: Jul 1, 2019)
  • other press reports about this case.

Firstly, looking at other reporting and to get this horrifying aspect out of the way . . .

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD "God this is depressing. What the hell were the parents doing. Do they not have eyes? She was a beautiful child - yes child - and as parents of children we have radars of adults around them and how the interact with our children."

It was reported in court by several witnesses that not only the child but her grandmother and the mother of a school friend had told the mother, Stacey White, repeatedly that Nicholson was both sexually abusing and physically assaulting Lucy.

I can hardly bear to write this.

They report that Lucy was scared of Nicholson, barricaded him out of her bedroom, went to stay with her grandmother to get away from him and that Lucy's mother at various times either disbelieved or blamed her daughter when Lucy went to her for help.

It was reported that the mother had claimed that Social Services had already investigated and said there was nothing to Lucy's allegations (I could not find anything in the press reports to confirm that the mother's claims are true in any aspect). It was also reported that Lucy's mother told Lucy's school friend to "slap her" (Lucy) if Lucy made any further allegations about Nicholson.

However, Lucy's stepfather, Richard Elmes (22), told Nicholson to move out of the house when he was made aware of Lucy's allegations about Nicholson and observed (how to best summarise this?) "violent arguments" involving Lucy (age 13) and Nicholson (age 24). I have put in all the ages because the person who anyone would reasonably expect to be most protective of Lucy is her mother, who was also the oldest adult in the home at 31.

If all the above is true, I hope the mother is prosecuted for neglect and enabling the abuse of her daughter!

Press Reporting of the trial of Stephen Nicholson

The dates of publication reflect what was going on in court at the time, so it is to be expected that reports on different dates reflect different aspects of the case.

The report in the Express linked in the OP dates from 21 June. I searched for press reports and the results were dominated by reports from the last few days. I really could not be bothered to try to find other reports from around 21 June to make a fair comparison with the Express. I would do if I was properly researching this but I just wanted to get a feel for how different publications were reporting the case.

I looked at about 10 recent reports in the press, some from the national press and some more local to Southampton.

IPSO Standards and Guidance and the Editors' Code

IPSO www.ipso.co.uk/

Editors' Code www.editorscode.org.uk/

The Editors’ Code of Practice sets out the rules that newspapers and magazines regulated by IPSO have agreed to follow.

The Editors' Codebook covers:

Accuracy
Privacy
Harassment
Intrusion into grief or shock
Reporting Suicide
Children
Children in sex cases
Hospitals
Reporting of Crime
Clandestine devices and subterfuge
Victims of sexual assault
Discrimination
Financial journalism
Confidential sources
Witness payments in criminal trials
Payments to criminals
The Public Interest

www.editorscode.org.uk/the_code.php

I looked at the Editor's Codebook sections about:

Accuracy
Intrusion into grief or shock
Children
Children in sex cases
Reporting of Crime

www.editorscode.org.uk/downloads/codebook/codebook-2019.pdf

Accuracy: Firstly, reporting of a court case cannot be criticised on the grounds of "Accuracy" if a journalist uses those same words in an article.
(In the trial of Stephen Nicholson for the rape and murder of Lucy McHugh, the words "sexual relationship" were apparently used in court by the prosecution, referring to a witness statement.)

Intrusion into grief or shock: There is a law in Scotland against "defaming the dead" but not in the rest of the UK. However, the Guidance specifically mentions the case that led to the Scottish law, which is relevant to the Lucy McHugh case:

"The sad case of 16-year-old Diane Watson, stabbed to death in a Glasgow playground row in 1991, remains a grim reminder of the risks and potential for significant intrusion into grief. That tragedy was compounded when her brother Alan, aged 15, killed himself 18 months later after reports appeared which he believed besmirched Diane’s name.

"The loss of Alan led to a sustained and ongoing campaign by parents Margaret and Jim Watson for changes to the law in Scotland around defamation of the dead. The Code does provide a remedy, but prevention is clearly better than cure. A little foresight by editors fully sensitive to the risks can avoid a great deal of unnecessary suffering."

Lucy had younger siblings.

Lucy was described in the Express initially as being Nicholson's "lover". This was retracted after complaints.

Although the Express is entitled to accurately report that Lucy was described in court as being in a "sexual relationship" with Nicholson this does NOT accurately reflect the fact that she was in fact the victim of sexual abuse as a minor by a paedophile. She was NOT complicit in or responsible for being raped and murdered.

This was the only aspect of the Editor's Code that I could find which might form the basis for a successful complaint to IPSO about the Express report of 21 June by Ben Mitchell.

Children: The code is not relevant to the Lucy McHugh case.

Children in sex cases: The code is not relevant to reporting of the Lucy McHugh case as it is all about avoiding identification of children who are lucky enough still to be alive!

Reporting of Crime: I could not find anything relevant in the Editor's Code.

I also looked at the outcomes of complaints to IPSO, using two searches. Firstly, all results using the search term "paedophile". Secondly, filtering all complaints by the category "Children in sex cases".

www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/

I also looked at IPSO Guidance for Journalists and Editors

This is more helpful but it is not in the Editors' Codebook.

www.ipso.co.uk/member-publishers/guidance-for-journalists-and-editors/

The areas covered by the Guidance are:

Deaths and inquests
Due prominence
Pre-publication advice
Major incidents
Sexual offences
Social media
Suicide
Transgender issues

"IPSO recognises that there are some situations where it is helpful for IPSO to produce guidance which explores in more detail how the Editors’ Code applies to particular themes or issues. The guidance does not replace or supersede the Editors’ Code, but is designed to support editors and journalists. The guidance also does not limit or restrict editorial decision making, but may inform that decision making."

IPSO Guidance on reporting of sexual offences

www.ipso.co.uk/member-publishers/guidance-for-journalists-and-editors/guidance-on-reporting-of-sexual-offences/

Sections:

About this guidance
Key points
Legal protections and Code provisions
Code compliance
Identifying information
Analysing information and jigsaw identifcation
Publishing online and contempt of court
Cases involving children
Waiving the right to anonymity
Further considerations: Language and support for interviewees
Case studies

Guidance relating to "Children" relates to children who are still alive.

The only relevant section is "Language"

www.ipso.co.uk/member-publishers/guidance-for-journalists-and-editors/guidance-on-reporting-of-sexual-offences/#FurtherConsiderationsLanguageAndSupportForInterviewees

"The Editors’ Code does not set out the language which must be used to describe sexual offences. However, when reporting on sexual offences, journalists are reporting on extremely sensitive and personal matters. Editors and journalists should not lose sight of the fact that victims will often be in a particularly vulnerable position. Care should be taken not to choose terminology which sensationalises the offences, apportions blame or implies that the victims consented to the sexual act. "

  • - - - - - - - -

My feelings now about the conduct of the case and the Express Report of 21 June

The Express was legally entitled to accurately report that Lucy was described in court as having been in a "sexual relationship" with Nicholson.

BUT

  1. The Prosecutor used those words, taken from a witness statement - how f&cked up is that?!

  2. The Journalist Ben Mitchell chose to use those words, out of everything else that was said in court that day - how f&cked up is that?!

  3. I believe that a complaint to IPSO might be successful on two counts:

3.1) Breach of the Editor's Code in terms of "Intrusion into Grief or Shock" with reference to "defamation" and the risk of negative impact on Lucy's surviving, younger siblings.

3.2) Failure to follow IPSO Guidance on the language used in reporting of sexual offences

  1. The IPSO Guidance on the language used in reporting of sexual offences should be included in the Editors' Codebook.

"The committee's role is to write, review and revise the Code, often considering suggestions for amendments from the public, or civil society, as well as from within the industry.

If you would like to suggest an amendment click here, or send it to:
Editors' Code Committee, : c/o News Media Association, Second Floor, 16-18 New Bridge Street, London, EC4V 6AG. "

www.editorscode.org.uk/about_us.php

  • - - - - - - - - -

I will come back here when I have complained to IPSO and made that suggestion for a change to the Editors' Codebook and will let you know the outcome Smile

OhHolyJesus · 06/07/2019 20:18

@MoleSmokes what a detailed post, thank you so much for proving all that. Very interested to know how you get on and if there is any value in additional complaints being sent.

I haven't sent mine to the BBC yet and they have since changed the story.

I'm actually very behind on my GC Admin, but every complaint or query sent it worth it.

How terribly Lucy has been let down in life, I hope the criminal justice system does not let her down in her death (and the death of her foetus).

CharlieParley · 07/07/2019 13:39

MoleSmokes brilliant post, thank you for putting this together.

Ereshkigal the age of consent in the UK is 13 not 12. Therefore this man is guilty of both statutory rape for the sexual abuse before Lucy turned 13 and of sexual activity with a minor after she turned 13, which is also a criminal act for anyone over the age of 18 and punishable by law (c.f. Section 9 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003).

Ereshkigal · 07/07/2019 14:14

Ereshkigal the age of consent in the UK is 13 not 12.

Yes that's what I said.

MenuPlant · 07/07/2019 15:03

Age of consent in uk is not 13!!!!

Law sees a difference between sex with a child under 13 (no excuses) and sex with a child 13 or up but under 16 (circs can be taken into account, similar age consenting may not be in public interest to prosecute etc).

In some circs eg teacher student age is 18 because of power differential / duty of carers type stuff.

But the age of consent in the uk is not 13!!!

MenuPlant · 07/07/2019 15:04

Sex with a 16 yo under normal circs is legal.

Where are you getting this stuff from? It's not what law says at all.

Uk is out of step with global standards with 16. Weird to think other countries look a6 us and go wow sex with children is legal (16, 17yo)

WhatsInAName19 · 07/07/2019 15:12

What's the issue, the reference to 'lover'?

🙄

@NeatFreakMama the "issue" is that the media are framing this as a pregnant girlfriend being killed by her partner, when in actual fact this was a child who was raped and impregnated by a violent paedophile, and murdered when he discovered that he had made her pregnant. It is not possible for a 12 or 13 year old child to be in a relationship with a 25 year old adult male. That is an abusive paedophile grooming a child; they are not "lovers".

Ereshkigal · 07/07/2019 22:36

But the age of consent in the uk is not 13!!!

Correct, I meant the age where "consent" is considered as a factor which determines whether it is rape.

Goosefoot · 07/07/2019 23:06

What was going on with the mother? What was her tie to this guy? I'd have guessed they were romantically involved but it sounds like there was also a step-father.

As far as the headline issue: I think a lot of people read the word relationship as meaning a romantic one, but it doesn't necessarily, "sexual relationship" to me seems a lot broader and not necessarily positive.

Erythronium · 07/07/2019 23:27

Raping a child under 13 is a strict liability crime, in other words the rapist can't claim he thought she was older or for mitigation because she was "consenting".

MenuPlant · 08/07/2019 08:39

I think supposed to be strict liability.

In practice we have seen multiple examples where it has not been. Arguments sround she looked older / she was up for it have been successfully used to get minimal sentences

WhatsInAName19 · 08/07/2019 09:30

@Goosefoot the word used in the headline wasn't "relationship" it was "lover".

I can see your point about a relationship not necessarily being positive, but the word "relationship" has certain connotations and if it were used to describe the connection between two people, one of whom is carrying the other's baby, it would clearly imply a consensual setup. I.e. "The girl had been in a relationship with the man for a year before becoming pregnant" would have very, very clear implications.

Goosefoot · 08/07/2019 12:16

Yes, lover was a bad choice. My initial thought was that it may well have been the case that the girl considered him her lover and perhaps it had been discussed in those terms in court, but it seems like that wasn't the case at all, she was very much bullied and coerced and trying to avoid him.

Relationship does at first blush seem to suggest something similar, though if it had said "sexual relationship" I think it wouldn't, oddly that seems to imply less, just that there was some sort of ongoing sexual activity.

It seems like it may have been a matter of the headline echoing the language of the court which I think is reasonable, there are many good reasons for newspapers reporting on court proceedings to avoid any kind of editorialising. I'm not sure that's something that's as well understood as it used to be, the proliferation of news sources on the internet that don't hold themselves to any kind of journalistic standards seems to mean that people read every headline and article as a sort of editorial opiion, even when they are purposefully avoiding that.

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