Cliff Richard has started a petition re anonymity of sex-related accusations until charge

[traceyracer]

Note he isn't looking for "anonymous until convicted", only until/if charged. Interested on what you think of this?
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pressure-group-backed-by-cliff-richard-to-launch-petition-for-anonymity-reform/ar-AADGfzZ
The petition is here:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/247912

Children I don't know figures but when it happens it can be significant eg John warboys scores of women came forward.

Then the police and everyone decided to fuck it all up but that's another issue.

As long as anonymity until charged is applied to people accused of all crimes, or at least all serious crimes, then sure it's a good idea.

Will this impact the efforts to identify criminals, how would that work.

If you show a picture of a man you want to question in connection with a rape the whole point is to identify him!

false accusations ruin lives, especially in the public eye

I see quite the opposite - that even the proven accusations, the actual convictions for rape, don't seem to reflect on the rapists convicted, but chiefly on the women who made the accusations. She's an attention-seeker! She's a liar! She's a whore! She's a gold-digger! etc etc.

Meanwhile the rapists are talented, from a good family, have a bright future in front of them, deserve a second chance, etc etc.

I wish a conviction for rape was enough to destroy a man's reputation, never mind an accusation.

I don't think anonymity until charged will have as big of an impact as some people seem to think tbh.

IME usually when people talk about men having their lives ruined it is more often than not referring to the investigation itself. Anonymity won't change that.

I actually think there is a chance a law change could actually make it more likely an innocent man could be named and shamed. But perhaps I am over thinking there...

@MenuPlant

I have actually been wondering how a law change would impact stranger rape cases.

Currently if someone is raped by a stranger the police can release a description in order to catch him. But surely if anonymity was in place then that couldnt work. Because as soon as you release the e-fit then surely anonymity has been broken...

This should absolutely not happen. People suspected of other offences are regularly named and their pictures circulated by police. Why are suspected sex offenders so special? But this petition doesn't surprise me after what I read on a probably long-deleted thread on here a few years ago.

If Jimmy Saville and his "friends" had been convicted then Cliff Richard wouldn't need this petition a helicopter buzzed about his house fgs there was no need for the media dramatics this isn't about protecting me n from sex crimes not really

MenuPlant said.
"Children I don't know figures but when it happens it can be significant eg John warboys scores of women came forward."

I agree in several highlighted famous cases such as Warboys it was obviously a worthwhile practice as It gets results.
I am just intrigued that after 48 hours of asking this question on this forum, that can normally dice stats seven ways from Sunday on anything to do with rape, nobody can show in what % of cases does publicity and naming of the accused result in other victims come forward against the same man.
If these people coming forward is going to be used as the main reason to not change the law as Richards and Gambochini are proposing,( and as far as I can see they are) then it is not a lot to ask to know the percentage of cases where naming has led to other people coming forward to accuse.
There were 2800 charges of rape in 2018 (sadly nowhere near enough and 23% down on previous year) afaik all of them named when charged.

What % of these men had others come forward to accuse them as a result of naming.

You must be aware that people can only quote stats that exist. We can't even get the justice system to record crimes by the sex of the perpetrator, so its a bit odd to call women out for the way crimes are recorded.

Children if you're so interested in these stats then why not get them yourself.

I have never seen any so suspect they aren't collected by the usual agencies, ie police govt etc. In which case its hardly surprising they have not been provided.

If you're so interested find them or collate them yourself.

You agree that there have been several high profile cases where it helped but that seems to be not enough for you.

The main reason I object is that it singles out this crime.

I am OK with not naming till charged, if its for all crimes.

I think the police should be allowed to use other info to seek extra victims or witnesses though. Eg John warboys they could have said his MO, and where, enough detail for others to recognise but not the name.

I can't say what I think of Cliff without getting banned (probably).

I read this and just presumed you were talking about all the sh*te music he's produced.

Mistakes do happen and I doubt anyone wrongfully named in an investigation ever really gets their life back as it was before. With the exception of being able to issue descriptions and photo fits when searching for attackers, it seems to make sense to wait for a conviction before publicly naming anyone.

I am OK with not naming till charged, if its for all crimes. Then that would be another petition when/if this one goes through. Use it for a change for the good for all crimes.

No more Christopher Jefferies, no more media putting salacious gossip before proper journalism!

And then, on the flip side of that coin, when all the men have had their ego's rubbed, insist that women get the same dignity when they report rape - by lawyer as well as media.

That one change is being called for can, and should, open the door for others that are similar, of equal/more importance.

it seems to make sense to wait for a conviction before publicly naming anyone. No. Not conviction, or there could be no call for others to come forward. After charging...

If anything, it might help genuine victims as malicious accusers aren't as likely to be able to tarnish the name of an individual without significant evidence - currently pointing the finger is sometimes enough to destroy somebody's reputation.

it seems to make sense to wait for a conviction before publicly naming anyone
'No. Not conviction, or there could be no call for others to come forward. After charging...'

Thank you for correcting that CuriousaboutSamphire. I was dipping into MN while working and meant to write 'wait until until charged'. My concentration was clearly stretched beyond capability.

.....goes off to check days office work for more stupid errors

"I believe this petition is a move toward anonymity of the accused to the point of conviction but they realised that starting at that point would garner little support" totally agree!

I'm absolutely against any move which further disadvantages the victims of these crimes.

Being accused doesn't always ruin lives, there's even been rapists who've been convicted who have continued to receive support from friends, family and employers.

"Additionally I do not wish to feed any further rape myths. Therefore the accused can be named like any other accused." Absolutely!

While we still have the bias very much, overwhelmingly in fact, in favour of rapists and against victims no I don't think changes like this are a good idea at all.

inews.co.uk/opinion/cliff-richard-bbc-reputation-damage-victims-opinion/
A good article in response to some of the discussions here. Lets remember he has already succeeded in changes being made to bail conditions leaving victims in a much worse position and the anonymity plea has previously been thrown out on good research basis

From that article:

According to the rules, identification should be withheld until the person is charged, except when there is some basis for believing there is a pattern of criminal activity.

A senior officer has to approve of the press briefing after consulting the Crown Prosecuting Service. Officers flagrantly break these rules and feed information to journalists.

I’m sorry but Cliff Richards is selfish and never seems concerned about actual rape and the victims, nor is he focused on the real problem: the police & media.

I kinda wish the petition hadn’t been shared here until we understood the present situation and laws, and that the issue is the police and media collaboration.

Is everyone who signed aware of this?

I knew about the reporting restrictions/contempt of court.

Was hoping someone with more knowledge would weigh in re: how these proposed changes would interact with existing ones - no one has done so yet but I have a creeping unease about the whole premise of this campaign, so haven’t signed it.

I’ve not yet seen anyone agreeing with Richards’ stance who actually reports on rape cases on a regular basis.

I do.

I spend my days reporting on court cases in the regions and have done for the past two decades. I’ve never once named a suspect before charge unless there has been a direct police appeal for a specific person (once, in my two decades). It just doesn’t happen in the real world. We wait until a first appearance at court because that means we can’t be sued for libel.

The only incredibly rare circumstances where people are named on arrest is when they are celebrities. So a new law would protect only a very, very small handful of white male celebrities from career damage. And tbh I haven’t seen much career damage to those people who have been found not guilty in a court of law. Most of them just go back to their careers and crack the fuck on.

But changing the law would have a direct effect on victims. It would tell them that the presumption is immediately that the man must be protected.

And it is laughable to think that the coppers are feeding the media information. They aren’t. Officers are terrified of speaking to the press nowadays. Even the most senior officers. There are a few notable exceptions but if I had a quid for every time I hear ‘phone the press office’ (at 6pm on a Friday night, after a stabbing, when it doesn’t reopen till Monday morning) I would be sitting on a sun lounger in Mauritius right now.

JaniceBattersby

Thank you for sharing that. It’s really helped me form my opinion on this.

What is Cliff Richards motive then? I don’t quite get the point, all things considered.