Transgender ideology and conspiracy theories

[Lamaha]

I generally view that worry with a fair bit of scepticism; it all sounds a bit far-fetched and even conspiratorial.

That was at the end of the Spectator article by James Kirkup posted yesterday on MN.

Here's a very long and good article on conspiracy theory. transanityca.wordpress.com/2017/08/13/synanon-the-brainwashing-game-and-modern-transgender-activism-the-orwellian-implications-of-transgender-politics-by-jenn-smith/?fbclid=IwAR0XbQ2lestKu3dFhGSS01xYA6WpzTAsFF6M1WeTetO5YrmKQJqpQA7ZOck

It is written by a transgender person.

At this point in human history there should be no question, it should not even be controversial, that political leaders and their supporters can become power mad and capable of the most insidious, carefully planned and executed, far-reaching evils imaginable. To ignore this capacity is irresponsible. One only needs, for instance, to watch the documentary Trudeau: Justin & Pierre to see that the seemingly saintly Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is actually a megalomaniac that spews a kind of “divine right of kings” philosophy in the sense that he believes he was born to lead the nation (one of his supporters had to implore him to be a little more humble). Justin’s father, Pierre, was the first prime minister in Canadian history to suspend civil rights and send troops into the streets. His son, Justin, has been at the forefront of pushing new reality-denying laws. When he was asked to allow inserting amendments into Bill C16 (the transgender rights bill) that would prevent males from entering women’s changerooms at pools and in schools, Trudeau specifically rejected the amendments. This shows he is in fact expecting males to enter women’s changerooms. Trudeau is thus the world’s leading champion of the trans agenda.

I'd love to see that documentary! Canada worries me.
And, later:

If we follow through the logical conclusions and outcomes of all these transgender laws being passed everywhere, it would appear to be about breaking down traditional morals and redefining humanity itself. As Morabito wrote, “The scope of the endgame is enormous: to legally and universally impose upon every human being a new definition — or rather, a non-definition — of what it means to be human.” Human casualties in the form of brainwashed, sterilized, mutilated children, and an assault on women’s right to privacy and their own sports and programs, are all incidentals or collateral damage in the mass social engineering and brainwashing “Game” that is the modern transgender agenda.

Ooops! I see that it's an article from 2017. Maybe it was posted before Never mind. a) There have been quite a few newcomers to MN (including me) who would not have seen it and b) it's becoming more and more credible that there's an unseen power behind it all.

I'm conflicted about conspiracy theories regarding the gender debate. On one hand, I can see why people think there is a conspiracy - it has happened so quickly, it is so outrageously illogical, there is such a culture of silence and fear, and a lot of the organisations involved are very well-funded. At times I'm pretty sure there is a conspiracy.

But, conspiracy theories are one thing that give an aura of dodginess to a political opinion. Lots of people still have no idea what this debate is really about. If they hear that the GC side is pushing conspiracy theories I think that makes it more likely they'll discount us as nutters. So just in terms of strategy, I think it's a bad one.

But also - is it a conspiracy if most of the people involved don't see themselves as conspirators? I know people who are TRAs, and also involved in politics. They aren't meeting in shadowy rooms or taking money to say things they don't believe. They're just able to be really, really thick when it suits them, and it does suit them because they're absolutely in love with getting retweets and social media back slaps.

Say there really is a coordinated effort, carried out in bad faith with conscious manipulation, to push transgenderism. Is that really the problem? I think the problem is the break down in the checks and balances that should have nipped it in the bud. For example, rights organisations parroting what other rights organisations are saying instead of working things out themselves. Newspapers only printing one view. No proper impact assessments.

OK, that's just someone with a WordPress blog, not an article?
So not sure how seriously to take this thread as I mean I could write my ramblings on one right now and have it passed off as an article to take notice of.

I’m more inclined to the ‘cock-up’ view of history than conspiracy.

This is all about where MRAs want to put their cocks.

I think Janice Raymond covered all of this in her book The Transsexual Empire

I am not sure I really see this as a conspiracy either, at least that is not the word I would use. I do think there are some people with a lot of money using it to further their beliefs. And there may be some people with an eye to breaking down certain sexual barriers communicating together to make use or current trends, and I think that is the closest thing to a conspiracy and it is only a small part. The rest IMO is accounted for by the general direction of identity politics and progressivism, combined with the effects of the internet on discourse. A lot of it to my mind comes directly out of what those movements have been preaching for years.

I think the Trudeau business is a serious red herring. Especially the business about the PET and the War Measures act. Even if you think it was a bad idea it was not about the Trudeaus somehow getting control of the Canadian government to create family dynasty, it was because internal terrorists were putting bombs in post boxes and a cabinet minister was kidnapped and executed. No doubt he was an arrogant man but that doesn't make it a conspiracy.
Justin is also arrogant and unfortunately does not have his father's brain, and believes his rather simple-minded privileged progressive view of the world fully encompasses what Canadian values are and should be, and should therefor be imposed on the rest of us. I don't quite see how that amounts to a conspiracy though.

I don’t think that was what the Kirkup article was alluding to. It was about people wanting to put their penis places they shouldn’t, not random anti-authority conspiracy theories.

@Lamaha Jenn Smith (self-described as transgender male, uses he/him pronouns - for benefit of Mumsnet Mods if any complaints) is currently experiencing an extraordinary level of opposition on a speaking tour in Canada.

This is important: Not just the usual suspects of mostly blue-haired students and prominent TW but very aggressive, violent demonstrations organised and coordinated by elected officials on school boards, councillors and, it would appear, a chief of police.

The videos posted on this page are worth watching to see how things escalated during the speaking tour:
transanityca.wordpress.com/2019/05/27/video-chronicle-of-the-vancouver-island-tour-and-its-aftermath/

They culminate in something that Jenn predicted, and that we saw in the UK when a meeting at Bristol Uni was cancelled, citing "public safety" concerns, ie. the failure of police to control a mob of trans activists (who assaulted an undercover cop, apparently no charges pressed) has resulted in the mayor deciding to ban further meetings.

The "Conspiracy" article is interesting.

I don't think at the macro-level that it is an analysis that should be dismissed any more readily than ones we are more familiar with in the UK. It harks back to previous events, saying, "We have been here before" rather than, "this is a purely imaginary future scenario, the like of which we have never seen". (Jenn has degrees in history and political science transanityca.wordpress.com/about/)

In the detail of "brainwashing" tactics used, it is an "insiders" view of past events and, to an extent, what we get glimpses of in the trans movement, accounts of detransitioners, etc. (There are other "brainwashing" outfits that people might have been involved with to see similarities, eg. Scientologists, The Moonies.)

The scale of the push-back against Jenn and the involvement of elected representatives, civic administration and the police might be because there is not a whole lot of other resistance in the area so it is all focussed on Jenn, therefore easier to see as a complete picture. In the UK, resistance has been much more diffuse, multi-focussed and I feel that this sometimes makes the full picture look rather blurred, kaleidoscopic and difficult to get in focus.

I am very sceptical of conspiracy theories and it is difficult to see any one driving force behind the mult-tentacled trans borg

However, I am keeping an open mind that Jenn's analysis might represent one explanation out of several, rather than dismissing it altogether because some pieces of the jig-saw do not sit right.

It's multi-tentacled for a reason. There are probably just a few wealthy organisations behind this dishing out crumbs from the table. However these individuals will never be identified or claim 'fake news'. They never sue either, there is no need because closing down speech or 'hate speech' is a cheap way to do it.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/companies-control-everything-you-buy-kelloggs-nestle-unilever-a7666731.html

See also blue ocean strategy

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy

Blue oceans, in contrast, denote all the industries not in existence today – the unknown market space, untainted by competition. In blue oceans, demand is created rather than fought over. There is ample opportunity for growth that is both profitable and rapid. In blue oceans, competition is irrelevant because the rules of the game are waiting to be set. Blue ocean is an analogy to describe the wider, deeper potential of market space that is not yet explored.

It's to do with accelerating changes in society, fracturing of ideas of what is acceptable, and opportunists who see the chance to push to make some eye-opening changes acceptable. (It's noteworthy how PIE, completely discredited, is now reemerging under different guises, some of which avoid censure.) The enabling factor is the Internet and social media. This means that even very fringe causes can group together an apparently large number of supporters and if they're motivated enough they can apply a surprising amount of pressure.

Then there's trans-Teflon. That's provided by identity politics where if your identity group can become "most oppressed" then in the eyes of the progressive establishment you become untouchable, unaccountable, etc.

To me the surprising thing is why has the progressive establishment suspended critical thinking for certain of these causes. That's to do with a mass delusion that everyone else is going along with the causes so they must too. A combination of The Emperor's New Clothes and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. But there are also people who are cheerleading because they stand to gain personally. For example people who are looking to be first movers as new social science disciplines become established.

TL; DR version: critical thinking thrown away to be popular with cowardice meaning it's never retrieved no matter how bonkers things get.

I've seen Jenn's synanon (sp?) YouTube docs. I think what they have to say are quite interesting particularly with the comparison to the slow indoctrination comparisons.

History repeats itself. That statement is basically a given. What maybe we need to define is actually what a "Conspiracy" is. There have been many instances of what have been dismissed as a conspiracy theory (at a certain point in history) ultimately being proven to be fact. IIRC "Conspiracy Theorist" first came into modern vernacular to refer to people who questioned the Warren Report about the Kennedy Assassination. Essentially people questioning how what the Government were telling didn't match their observations. This should never be a bad thing, but apparently it is.

I've said it many times, I love conspiracy theories, sometimes I laugh at the sheer lunacy e.g. The elite are lizard aliens. But sometimes, just sometimes, I stop and think, yeah maybe they are actually onto something here. Let me give you an example: Pizzagate, I know this will be an incredibly unpopular opinion. But hey popularity has never meant much to me anyway. I was on Reddit in real time, searching stuff about the latest Wikileaks releases. I saw a woman who was revealing a vast number of twitter accounts that were promoting pornography involving children. I saw her be "disappeared" from twitter. Do I think a child trafficking operation was happening in the basement of a DC pizza parlour? No. Do I think that wealthy and powerful people could be involved in the sexual abuse and exploitation of children? Yes, yes I do. Simply because historically there have been many examples of this, and then the protection of them. Two words for the UK readers - Jimmy Saville. Just one of many. So many, too many, across the western world.

PIE and NAMBLA were real groups. Have they really gone away? Or do people desperate to enact their agenda continue to work at it? Maybe smarter, maybe more slyly, maybe they are playing a long game? Food for thought.

My username is a shoutout to my love of the X-Files (yes I know Mulder was the one that was always questioning). My takeaway from that show was Question Everything. Does anyone honestly believe that any government, anywhere, truly has their constituents safety and wellbeing as a priority? Because when we are discouraged to not question those in power/authority, when we are being told that these people know better than us. We will IMHO find ourselves in a very, very bad place.

To me the surprising thing is why has the progressive establishment suspended critical thinking for certain of these causes.

I think part of this is the fruit of poor education, not just at universities either though that is a part of it. But poor education in just regular schooling. I know some pin it on poor science education which is relevent, but to me the main thing is a poor historical education. Even when they do learn it, there is a very simplistic sense that people i the past thought differently than us because they were unenlightened and ignorant, not because they they had a different but still rational set of beliefs, and certainly they weren't committed to being kind or just in teh same way.
If you really know that there are very different ways people can think about things, ad also the kinds of thinking errors they do make or differing basic beliefs, you can see your own ideas as also likely to be flawed, or examine your own bias and assumptions.

I am sure class division plays a part too. There is a real tendency for those with university education to dismiss any idea from those without as bigoted if it differs from what they have been taught.

CassianAndor yes that is exactly what it is. Not to mention the promotion and protection of map accounts on twitter. Don't even get me started on the "academics" arguing the cause.

Oh and we should probably acknowledge the added bonus for all the rapists and toilet camera perverts who also benefit. Win win, apparently
not envy.

I don't think it's a conspiracy in the traditional sense ie New World Order, David Icke, X Files type stuff.

I think it's more a form of mass hysteria like Satanic Ritual Abuse- and I do think the trans juggernaut has a lot in common with Satanic Panic. Just off the top of my head: damaging children irreparably under the guise of saving them from trauma. Dodgy, unscientific and unethical medical practices. "Experts" and lobby groups popping up like mushrooms and the resulting regulatory capture. Lack of skepticism of the claims from authorities. The persecution of non-believers.

Almost everyone involved in the Satanic Panic either:

1. Believed whole-heartedly that there were literally armies of Satanists raping and murdering children and performing bizarre rituals on an industrial scale- we're talking millions of kids vanishing all over America- despite the fact there was no evidence; OR
2. Were skeptical but went along with it all and didn't say anything- many out of fear they'd be accused of being child-murdering Satanists themselves.

With trans, there are conspiracies within the larger hysteria- for example, I think paedophiles most certainly are piggy-backing onto the gay rights movement once again.

I also think there's a huge financial incentive- trans has it's own economy, from drugs companies with patents on T-Gel, HRT and puberty blockers who have found a brand new, lucrative market of lifelong patients, cosmetic surgeons, charities, YouTubers and Instagrammers, right down to the creepy cottage industries who make packers for toddlers.

Sex and greed are driving this movement, more than anything else.

Ah yes I agree with much you've said here WhatTheWatersShowedMe however what you are stating in your final two main paragraphs (which incidentally I agree with) are the type of statements that could be accused of being conspiracy theory in some quarters. See how easy it could be to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist?

I find your parallels with Satanic Panic very relevant. Interestingly many of those leading the charge were therapists etc. mostly those with very questionable qualifications. A very famous true crime case during that era was the West Memphis 3. During trial an expert witness for the prosecution was a man who was essentially a self proclaimed expert on satanic cults. His qualifications? A mail order "degree". He was also responsible for training police in identifying examples of satanic rituals. Ring any bells?

Yes the parallels are very interesting .

I think it's more a form of mass hysteria like Satanic Ritual Abuse
And the craze for 'recovered memories', that did so much damage. The similarity with that, in particular, is interesting because to throw doubt on recovered memories was seen as attacking vulnerable victims, which is the same kind of reaction we get if we question gender identity.

Don't know if I agree that sex and greed are the main drivers. I think it's a perfect storm of lots of things. Like Goosefoot's said a few times, there have been ideas floating round for a while in connection to liberalism that should have been questioned before now. For example, it's seen as a virtue to avoid listening to opposing viewpoints, and free speech has been taken as a dog-whistle for right-wing ideas.

At the same time social media seems to be a significant driver. It incentivises point-scoring over proper discussion where both people try to better understand the other's position. Politicians play to likes and retweets and get a skewed idea of what the public want because they're only being exposed to people who are always on Twitter. Everyone is terrified of being the nasty person who gets piled on. And we no longer have any proper separation of work and private life - on Twitter, many businesses use virtue-signalling as a marketing strategy, to the point where if you don't, you're the odd one out.

It's kind of like social media has recreated the worst aspects of life in a small village - everyone knows your business, and if you step out of line they'll let you know about it.

Yes the recovered memories. That did become linked with satanic panic in a few instances, especially a group of young children attending a daycare in the US.Yet again dodgy therapists (as opposed to genuine ones) leading the way.

Mermoose, from looking at what you've said, I very much agree- the 'why' of the transcult is a complex one and I don't think it would have got the traction it has without social media, the suppression of free speech, and the left-wing/ right-wing culture wars.

Dana, I'm into true crime so very familiar with the WM3 case- it was absolutely scandalous, and it really is a prime example of how mass hysteria steamrolled common sense, with children being the victims. And yes, I'm sure that "expert" on Satanism and the people who espouse the Jelly Baby Theory of Human Sexual Variation would get on like a house on fire. And I can see what you mean about how easy it is to be accused of tinfoil-hat thinking- but those people equating GC postulation that there might be some financial or sexual motives for promoting the trans ideology with, say Flat Earthers, are being very disingenuous.

‘’The issue's not whether you're paranoid, Lenny. I mean, look at this shit. The issue is whether you're paranoid enough ...’’

That’s my favourite line from Kathryn Bigelow’s Strange Days

The thing about conspiracies is that those participating usually don't know it.

Cambridge Analytica stated on (hidden) camera footage that the way they influenced elections was by quietly making available some carefully targeted campaign materials to grass roots organisations.

Grass roots organisations typically don't have much money and gratefully re-use any such "free" materials they can find. All the general public see is a group of "independent" organisations because the link is kept invisible to everyone.

I'm increasingly thinking that there is a wider conspiracy but I don't think it is ideological at base, like most things in the world, I think it is more mundane and comes down to "follow the money"

Some people, somewhere are benefiting massively from all of this in a financial way, be that "training" or medical intervention etc. Hell, maybe it's driven by lawyers who are set to get the biggest ever class action earnings ever in a few years time.

Where can I get me a tinfoil pussy hat?