I have to prove I have the means to pay a mortgage before I can have one - why is the GRA seen as being "intrusive"?

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

If you want anything from society you have to justify/earn it.

I can't just get PIP, I have to have my need assessed to be awarded it.

I can't just get free travel, I have to show I am over 60, or have my other needs assessed first.

I can't just get a job, I have to prove my ability.

I can't just get life insurance, I have to prove my worth.

Why is the GRA any different? Why is it humiliating to evidence your need and prove it is appropriate?

I can't think of any other situation where "I need it, I want it" is debated, never mind tolerated.

I've always
wondered this too. Consenting adults with families cant get sterilised/vasectomy.

People wait years for surgeries. Have it cancelled repeatedly. People have medications stopped due to cost.

Waiting lists for everything are astronomical.

They are being treated no differently to anyone else.

There are strict criteria for many surgeries and course of treatment. Giving up drinking or smoking or drugs etc for a designated period of time.

I dont see how it's any different at all

The complaints about cost makes me boggle too. If I want a driving licence or a passport I have to pay for it, if I want a prescription I have to pay for it (frankly even if I don't want it, I need it and it still costs me). Going bankrupt - something people who have no money or ability to borrow do - costs hundreds of pounds. Why are there complaints about the cost of a GRC?

I dont get the cost thing either.

An elderly person wanting to grant both heath/welfare, and financial Powers or Attorney need to pay effectively the same amount. These are people no longer earning, indeed struggling to manage their own affairs.

Why are young people, apparently without a medical issue, getting this special attention. If money is a problem why cant Stonewall or someone fundraise.

Absolutely. As far as I am aware the fee is waived for those on low incomes anyway.

It shouldn't be easy to change your legal sex. It's not a throwaway thing. Getting a divorce takes time and money too.

Admin around fiancé/spousal visa and indefinite leave to remain is way more intrusive and far, far more expensive.

Even the cheapest, admin only, marriage costs money and involves an interview with a stranger and proof of eligibility via paperwork.

Change of legal status costs money ¯\(ツ)/¯

This year I've had a smear, a mammogram, and I've just had my ESA assessment.
You should have seen the forms the Windrush applicants had to fill in. I downloaded them and printed them off for neighbours. They had to include all sorts of private documents and statements.

I made this point when I did the GRA consultation. If someone has genuine gender dysphoria then surely a medic signing you off would be a relief rather than a hindrance.
I’m not comparing it to autism directly but when DD received her autism diagnosis letter it was a positive milestone which allowed us to access the help we needed. Doesn’t a medical diagnosis of GD do the same?

Whats GRA? 😁

Gender recognition act I am guessing sorry 🤦🏻‍♀️

Totally get what you mean 👍🏻

All in its cost us about £8k to have my husband stay in the country.

Bleating about an admin charge for a GRC? Off you fuck.

It’s cheaper and way less intrusive than changing a birth certificate to include a deceased father... and you’d think that should be easier to establish seeing as DNA tests exist...

So, does anyone have any idea why the GRA has had such political traction?

It strikes me as being very like a toddler's tantrum, politically speaking.

I lived in the UK for ten years and wanted to get citizenship. I had to fill in a plethora of forms, produce a heap of bank statements etc, get two character references, pass a test on British customs and traditions (with questions such as "how many Bangladeshis emigrated to the UK in 1999 -- no kidding). And when I was ready the cost shot up and it would have been £2000.
I didn't bother. I have EU citizenship anyway so it would just have been an extra.

I have a disability that will never improve, it’s actually got steadily worse over the last 20 years and I’ve had to have a body part removed because of it. Still every year or so DWP require me to prove I’m still disabled, in case a miracle has occurred. I’d love to be able to sign a form and be done with it. At least I could provide concrete evidence that it’s actually real.

Same her whatis DH has MS but has to fill in forms for benefits increasingly often.

So, does anyone have any idea why the GRA has had such political traction?

It's largely men pushing for something men will benefit from.

That's the general consensus.

I agree. It's also ridiculous to claim that having your biological sex on your medical records is triggering. I have friends who have a stillbirth on their records, or cancer, or history of miscarriages....etc. Nobody has a lovely, jolly romp of a medical file, it's all horrible and traumatic.

If someone has genuine gender dysphoria then surely a medic signing you off would be a relief rather than a hindrance.

There was a ruling in the European Court of Human Rights a couple of years ago, in which a French citizen was arguing that a medical diagnosis shouldn't be necessary to change legal sex. He lost. The court's decision was based on the fact that a medical diagnosis would help to prevent such a person from making a mistake regarding a major change in their legal status.

A.P., GARÇON AND NICOT v. FRANCE

Yes, that also troubles me.

I can see the reasoning behind "transgenderism is not a mental illness", but, a lot of these people seem to ALSO have anxiety, depression, bi-polar or autism. So, how can self declaration be safe?

Why would you NOT want these people being assessed by an expert? surely it's a basic safe practice issue?

And, YES to the hoop jumping and form filling- it's normal expectations of society. Why should trans be any different?

Re, "it's what men want"

Agree

See also marriage equality brought in Ireland before reproductive care was established. Cos, men wanted to be able to get married and weren't fussed about getting terminations.

Because people are genuine in their absolute belief that they ARE the opposite sex. So to even ask for legal paperwork makes them feel dysphoric I guess.

I remember someone writing "I don't need a piece of paper to tell me what I am"

I immediately thought of marriage. Yes, people don't need a certificate to have an absolute commitment to each other. But our society / legal system has developed around it? You can clearly not get married, but I think you don't have the same rights as a married couple. That piece of paper is important in a legal context.

We live in a society with a legal framework that applies to everyone, in almost every situation.

If the equalities act stated gender reassignment, as a protected characteristic, is defined by those with a gender recognition certificate, then I wonder if suddenly they wouldn't be seen as so invalidating.....

Live your life in whatever set of gender stereotypes you choose, but that piece of paper should be more important than it seems to be. No official paperwork should be changed without it.

I wonder if those of us who aren’t trans can have stuff we find triggering struck from our medical records. Having certain conditions and events related to those conditions can make it very difficult when doing things like getting a job. Some occupational health questionnaires ask for virtually your entire medical history. Having some aspects of it removed would make it much easier, and if you can hide the fact that you’re actually male, rather than female, why can’t you hide, say the fact that you were sectioned in 2012? I mean, if certain people are at liberty to pick and choose the essential parts of themselves in order to not feel triggered, or to re-enforce their chosen status, then why would something like a hospital admission 7 years ago that has no baring on the present have to be disclosed? It would make an interesting court case, that’s for sure.

And on the one hand a GRC is invalidating, but on the other hand they’re too hard to get and transpeople will die if it’s not made easier than getting a radar key.

Because people are genuine in their absolute belief that they ARE the opposite sex.

So, this interests me. That strikes me as delusional thinking - it is not possible to change sex, if you believe that firmly then you are a bit of a worry.

An anorexic with delusional thinking, or anyone else who is not able to accept their reality, would be considered to have an illness.

But, being dysphoric about your gender is not an illness? It's not an illness, but, it needs treatment RIGHT NOW, and lots of it, as per the person's desires. So, that includes treatments not available on the NHS to the rest of the population, like hair removal, because it is NEEDED RIGHT NOW.

It's as if there is no critical thinking to be had around the needs of the -rapidly growing trans community. This is markedly different to any other issue with ramifications for law, medicine and policy.

Why?