I'm basically just having a moan (contains trans)

[leafinthewind]

I want to join a feminist organisation and go to feminist actions, but I don't want to talk about trans anything. I want to talk about bathroom provision, but not about trans. I want to talk about pay, but not about trans. I want to talk about mothering, but... Well, you get it. I also don't want to talk about not talking about trans.

It's not possible is it? There's no such thing? Trans-rights people will want me to talk about trans AND gender-critical people will want me to talk about trans. I have to pick a side, don't I? Dammit.

I don't know about today, but the last time I counted about 43 out of the first 50 threads that make up the first page were related to transgenderism, so good luck with that. 🙂

It's because unfortunately it's one of the greatest threat to women's rights existing at the moment. It's hard to ignore.

Yeah. And I just started another one. Sigh... On the bright side, I've got really good at spotting them, even when the thread titles don't make a direct reference.

I'm not being obtuse but can't you just start new threads about what you want to discuss? I've seen thread on FWR discussing the women's World Cup and other non-trans stuff. Trans stuff does dominate because many posters feel it it is a threat, maybe the biggest threat to women right now, but FWR isn't limited to GC thinkers or trans related conversations.

That's interesting: why don't you want to talk about trans anything?

Crying I know. I know. It's just galling, because we're being sidetracked away from other (serious) existing problems by this entirely new problem. I've been reading Ann Oakley, who was writing about women in the family and in work in the 70s and 80s and it feels like almost nothing has changed.

And now we can't talk about that anymore without first getting our unisex separated from our gender-neutral.

OhHoly sure! No problem here. But I've been looking for a feminist group near me, and it's all 'printing stickers with correct pronouns for our self-defence sessions' and badges saying 'TERFs out'.

I know SpartacusAutisticus. I know. It just makes me crazy. We had enough problems already. And I already cared about them. I didn't want a new, more dangerous problem. Mutter, grumble, whine.

I can understand your frustration- it's like being political without talking about Brexit. The climate is collapsing, the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and all anyone cares about is whether BoJo is an idiot or not.

I want to reset the world where the trivial stuff is all sorted, and we can focus on important things.

Also, get rid of the marginal stuff. Obviously a woman does not have penis, men do not belong in women's spaces, why the hell are we having to waste time on this stuff!!?!

Ooh, no I hadn't seen that. Sadly I'm not currently attached to a uni, so it's trickier to get it.

Sometimes I pop on S&B for a bit of light relief...

What did you want to talk about re bathroom provision?
And about equal pay?

Btw, my workplace has almost got equal pay (City, financial services). There's only one band where women have slightly smaller bonuses.

Yes pickleme! Why can't it just be sorted out, because surely it's not that hard! Women are women and words are useful for describing things which are different from one another.

Ta Spartacus!

Mangoes re: bathrooms. Women often have to queue; men rarely have to queue. Baby changing facilities are still more likely to be in the ladies. When you next go to the loo in a pub or restaurant, have a look - which loo is closest to the main space? It's almost always the men's. Toilet provision is clearly all kinds of wrong already, without getting into trans issues.

On equal pay, it's more about gendered culture now - women are more likely to be cleaners and child care workers, while men are more likely to be warehouse workers. Are these jobs paid equally? And while we're on it, until the proportion of men and women in particular jobs/at particular levels is much closer to equal, you can tell something somewhere is going wrong.

I agree. I think surrogacy and forced adoption is a much more pressing and worrying women's issue but all of my energy has been taken up by trans bollocks.

For example it bothers me that the NSPCC have the right to remove children from families. How do we not they're not targeting young, poor , single mothers? Do the NSPCC get to define what an unfit mother is? And women might have their babies taken away based on an NSPCC opinion/definition rather than be offered financial and emotional support to help them cope if they're struggling. Now I'm wondering who the NSPCC actually are, apart from pervs in fetish gear wanking. That's all I think of when I think of the NSPCC

The reason the men's toilet is generally nearer the main space is so that they have no excuse to walk past the women's toilet.

Of course, when men design toilet layout they recognise that some men will take advantage of any access to women, and, unlike women discussing such topics, never need to say NAMALT.

Leaf, I've wondered why men get the closest loos, but think that women get to be further away because it feels safer. By the time I've made it to the ladies, it's pretty much a man free zone. If I were being followed by a man at that point, I'd know he was up to no good.

Jelly is both faster and more succinct. Pah.

I used to work in GAP and the ladies was upstairs which I always though was odd as they would be more likely to have buggies and we only had one small lift.

Lots of issues to discuss OP so maybe if you have an area of interest like DV or something that runs a real-life group near you, you could get involved there? I'm increasingly finding GC friends and activities in real life as that suits my interests but I come on here to learn and for a moan. I'm very keen to keep abreast of the trans issues but I appreciate it's not for everyone. Happy to engage in debates around surrogacy, sex work, gender pay gap - anything really. Would be good to see more of thread on those topics .

A rare event, Pickle

I do think the title of this thread is funny. Each time I see it I think of those warnings on labels about nuts and that. (Contains trans)

It's the big issue of our time though. I'd rather focus on reproductive rights and access to abortion etc, but unfortunately the trans issue is also encroaching on that: women at universities and elsewhere are basically being told to shut up about it because it makes transpeople feel excluded.