Maybe we should just do away with 'men's' and 'wonen's' sports for good.

[LemonGingerCakes]

Instead, for sex segregated sports, we could have xx and xy sports. That way it doesn’t matter how you 'identify'... it's an equal playing field.

That way men won’t be impinging on women's sports by identifying as female. Xx chromosomed people compete with xx and xy people compete with xy.

What do you all think?

I thought the Olympics used to segregate male from female athletes by chromosome testing. But they swapped that for testosterone for some illogical reason and that's why we have this mess. Yes, let's return to no XYs taking women's places in sport.

(Except, I guess, for those with complete androgen insensitivity, so they aren't benefiting from masculinised aerobic capacity, or the more dense muscle and bones, faster muscle twitch etc)

Agree!

Segregating by XX and XY is segregating by sex.

TRAs won’t agree to it; they want sport segregating by gender.

Gender has to replace sex.

I think we let the next Olympics happen, hope many TW enter and win with all sorts of records being beaten. Then the whole world will see the stupidity of it!

We just need to be ready with a name for it... 2020Trans Olympics only works if you say it out loud!

Segregating by XX and XY is segregating by sex.

Yes, you’re right I’m mixing up my terms. I’m still educating myself.

Sports are segregated by sex. Seeing as there are blurred lines between sex and gender, we should look beyond 'male' and female'. We should segregate by chromosome. XX or XY (unless the sport doesn’t need to be segregated, like horse sports).

Gender should be taken out of in, despite what the TRA say. Then it doesn’t matter how you identify , or anything else about sexuality/ transitioning etc. XX compete with XX and XY compete with XY.

If you’ve have hormone blockers as a teen (to prevent testosterone etc), then in a way you have ruled yourself out from serious sporting competition - but I wouldn’t have throught serious athletes would do that anyway, though.

I’m the case of XXY and XYY, they could be decided on a case to case basis, but as a non-medic, I would assume the Y chromosome puts the bias towards XY. But it could be decided individual to individual.

Translympics!

Sports are segregated by sex
Actually they're segregated by the more ambiguous terms men's or women's...

What about XX people who take testosterone and have hysterectomy/mastectomy?

Yes, do away with men's and women's sports and just have three levels of 'ability'.

It will naturally settle into male/male but taking female hormones/female...

What about XX people who take testosterone and have hysterectomy/mastectomy?

The hysterectomy/ mastectomy would be irrelevant - choosing things off doesn’t mean you never had them

Testosterone is a banned (I believe - suddenly doubting myself) supplement. I would imagine that as long as testosterone levels remained within 'normal' XX testosterone levels, then that would (have to be) allowed.

Chopping things off, not choosing.

To clarify - if testosterone supplementation meant that an XX person supplemented testosterone to XY levels, then thy would be banned for taking illegal levels of hormone. Like performance enhancing drugs are banned...

Yes! Women have lower levels of testosterone than men. Transwomen, despite being women also have higher levels of testosterone than, erm, women! So they can have more, just not quite as much as other, erm, men.

Which, in wholly trans terms, means that all women have less testosterone than men, just some, and only some, a specific cohort that is in no way different, at all, no sirree, have more than the others, much more!

You know.. as in all animals are created equal but some are more equal than others. Same difference.

Sadly I am not kidding!

Sorry, should have started that with Yes. As testosterone has been on the performance enhancing drugs list sice 1976.

Oddly human boides have managed to overcome this, that is some bodies, not all, of course!

Segregate by sex:

If you have a Y chromosome you aren’t eligible for the female category. People with XXY (Klinefelter) and XYY are male. This is unambiguous.

People with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome with XY are phenotypically female, but have multiple advantages over their 46XX competitors. An estimation from the Atlanta Olympics found an incidence of 1 in 423 CAIS among competitors, compared to an incidence of 1 in 20,000 in the general population.

Protect and ring fence the requirements to compete in the women’s category and let everyone else argue about how they want to compete and be categorised.

I thought you were going to suggest ending sex segregation completely! Which I'm obviously not in favour of. But I like to point out when people want to segregate by gender, that they are effectively arguing for no sex segregation - and so why aren't they being open about that instead of hiding behind the guise of 'gender'?

I suppose I’m trying to clear up the blurring between sex and gender.

'Male' and 'female' are being made harder to define (even though it should be straight forward).

XX and XY is straight forward. It doesn’t matter how you dress or what you present yourself as, or what you add/ chop off. It seems the clearest way to say XX compete with XX and XY compete with XY (unless the sport doesn’t need segregating).