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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
OrchidInTheSun · 16/06/2019 21:29

Simon (they pronouns) is studying homeostatic plasticity and activity dependent regulation of synapses and excitability.

He looks like a painfully dull and earnest human being. Sorry, they look like

youkiddingme · 16/06/2019 21:30

'There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. '
Rather a lot thrown in together there. It is true that the development of the penis is dependent upon the presence of hormones. Specifically testorone. This being produced by the Leydig cells in the testes. Which have already formed.
Again of course, this is a point at which biology could cause atypical genitalia.
Again rare, and again, probably not relevant to all trans people.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 16/06/2019 21:38

PhDs are very very very specific. They are a training in carrying out research but not much use in building knowledge especially knowledge of anything not precisely part of your PhD. However, it seems this individual has yet to develop skill in critical analysis.

dancingcamper · 16/06/2019 21:43

I would ask them to explain all the chromosomal combinations that produce adults capable of reproducing and which gametes they produce and which ones give birth.

They are the only ones which biologically count as a sex.

AnyOldPrion · 16/06/2019 21:45

I don’t know why you wimms are being so scathing about Simon with an uncertain e. I mean this isn’t just research. It’s ACTUAL research.

AlwaysComingHome · 16/06/2019 21:45

Yes, I saw a comment recently about male and female embryos being identical until acted upon by testosterone. To which I asked the obvious question ‘If they are identical before the action of testosterone where does the testosterone come from?’ And when you follow the testosterone back you get to the Leydig cells, and then the testes, which differentiate from the primordial because of the action of the SRY gene which has been present since conception.

TRAs don’t get the idea of development at all. They have this idea that either an embryo has to be either a little man or a little woman, like some medieval homunculi, or else it is an undifferentiated mass until a Doctor arbitrarily assigns it sex at birth.

GCAcademic · 16/06/2019 21:47

Is there something happening at the moment that we need to be distracted from, I wonder?

AlwaysComingHome · 16/06/2019 21:50

They are the only ones which biologically count as a sex.

The reason we have chromosomal anomalies in the first place is because of sex. If we didn’t shuffle our genes during meiosis, and if the Y chromosome wasn’t so tiddly compared with the Y, there wouldn’t be so many non-disjunctions.

FloralBunting · 16/06/2019 21:52

Is there something happening at the moment that we need to be distracted from, I wonder?

Honestly, GCAcademic, in the current climate of open paedophilia, massive data breaches that reveal collusion and safeguarding nightmares, the woefully perverted behaviour going on at the NSPCC offices, etc. etc. etc. I'm actually quite glad of a few minutes gentle distraction by cod science.
I think I shall spend a few minutes later laughing at creationists just for variety.

dancingcamper · 16/06/2019 21:54

Yes agreed, ones which aren't able to produce viable sperm or eggs are genetic dead ends. Not new variations of sex.

For the absence of doubt all humans are equally important, regardless of their biology.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 16/06/2019 21:56

Is there something happening at the moment that we need to be distracted from, I wonder?

I have asked myself this many many times

youkiddingme · 16/06/2019 21:59

You explained that so much more succinctly than me Alwayscominghome
Wine

BluebonicPlague · 16/06/2019 21:59

Thing is, if you can show a single anomaly anywhere in the whole world that shows - ta-da! Anomalies!! Everywhere!!! (are possibly possible!!!!) (and possibly account for anything!!!!! and everything!!!!!!)

AlwaysComingHome · 16/06/2019 22:01

Honestly, GCAcademic, in the current climate of open paedophilia, massive data breaches that reveal collusion and safeguarding nightmares, the woefully perverted behaviour going on at the NSPCC offices, etc. etc. etc. I'm actually quite glad of a few minutes gentle distraction by cod science.

I agree. It’s a relief to talk about something which is merely wrong rather than sickening.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 16/06/2019 22:04

Also, even if sex is a spectrum (it isn't) that doesn't mean our position on the spectrum is movable. Even if they discover 6 new sexes between female and male that doesn't stop me being female. I can't change sex, men can't change sex, and if we ever find the sperg and spegg makers they won't be able to change sex either.

BluebonicPlague · 16/06/2019 22:14

ByGrabtharsHammar
Also, even if sex is a spectrum (it isn't) that doesn't mean our position on the spectrum is movable. Even if they discover 6 new sexes between female and male that doesn't stop me being female. I can't change sex, men can't change sex, and if we ever find the sperg and spegg makers they won't be able to change sex either.

^^This. Obviously.

(My earlier comment was satirical, in case no one realised.)

EndoplasmicReticulum · 16/06/2019 22:17

Oh I like the sperg and the spegg very much.

I was wondering what gametes were produced in the middle of the spectrum and now I know!

AlwaysComingHome · 16/06/2019 22:31

You’d think I’d there was a gamete with the properties of an egg and a sperm it could just fertilise itself, and there wouldn’t need to be any sexes.

LangCleg · 16/06/2019 22:32

All the clever people have posted but I do have another #prettyphoto

Inconvenient truths?
FermatsTheorem · 16/06/2019 22:40

The thing about all this obfuscation round intersex conditions (and imaginary smeggs and spergs and so forth which all sound a bit Red Dwarf) is that trans has nothing to do with intersex (which in any case isn't an in-between sort of state, it is - medical meaning, rather than any sort of normative claim - a disorder of sexual development). A substantial number of male bodied people who come to identify as trans do so later in life, after they've been married and successfully fathered several children, which rather suggests that their courting tackle was capable of producing sperm of the standard type rather than smeggs or spergs or whatever. There are a number of female born trans identifying people who've carried pregnancies to term. And there's no reason to suppose that those who transition earlier had anything other than the bog standard reproductive biology of their birth sex either.

BatShite · 17/06/2019 17:56

Ha. Ha.

The pretending its not genderists who bang on about pink and blue brains is hilarious really. Science will never prove sex change is possible in humans (yes we know..but fungi or whatever). As is much of the rest of the article, a fun distraction from the grim shit I have been reading today.

Ereshkigal · 17/06/2019 18:34

I heard that being female stimulates an area of the brain known as shatners bassoon,

Grin please Chris Morris, this stuff is an open goal.

geekaMaxima · 17/06/2019 18:48

I'm also curious as to how testosterone level variance is only 56% decided by X or Y.

That claim in the article is intellectually dishonest and completely misrepresents the findings of the cited article. It didn't even twist the interpretation of the findings: it made up shit and attributed it to the paper. Any PhD student of mine did that would be in for a serious talk about critical thinking and research ethics.

Fwiw, the line in the blog was:
And while testosterone exhibits the largest difference between adult males and females, heritability studies have found that genetics (X vs. Y) only explains about 56 percent of an individual’s testosterone, suggesting many other influences on hormones.

The actual study cited for this "fact" was a twin study looking at how individual differences in testosterone were biologically heritable. In effect, whether being in the high versus low end of the normal male range of testosterone runs in the family. Twins are useful to study these things because they share a common environment, but monozygotic twins share 100% genetic profile, whereas dizygotic twins share ~50% genetic profile. The study found that both genetic and environmental influences affect testosterone levels, and 56% of the variance in testosterone can be attributed to genetics alone.

But it's still not about X and Y. The whole study used normal population male (XY) twins but didn't sequence their genomes at any point. The authors think that what really drives the heritability of hormone levels like testosterone are genes for receptors and feedback mechanisms in a complex hypothalamic–pituitary–testicular hormonal regulatory system... and genes for coding these things have already been identified all over the chromosome. Not just on X or Y.

Sheesh.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 17/06/2019 19:09

I know right eresh? chris morris, where are you now?

PencilsInSpace · 17/06/2019 19:30

I'm only here for the memes GrinFlowers

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