Pronouns in email signature

[thirdfiddle]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but couldn't find a thread. People are talking about getting everyone at work to put their pronouns in their email signature. I really don't like the idea. Why do they want us to do this, and can anyone suggest a good neutral way to answer if asked why I don't?

Hopefully won't come up as immediate colleagues are very cynical and liable to silently roll eyes at any such initiative that gets off the ground rather than enforce it.

Hello everyone! I came across this thread whilst google searching for my own answer to if I should start putting 'she/her' on my email signature.

I thought I'd share this link :
www.bottomline.org/content/support-gender-inclusive-pronouns

which was quite helpful for me to understand why stating your pronouns can be a helpful step in moving towards a more inclusive world for people of all genders and identities. I realised that the reason why I thought it wasn't important for me first, was because people would assume I was obviously female from my name (or if they knew me). But then I learnt that actually, assuming everyones identity can be ignorant and sometimes very hurtful.

If putting my pronoun on my email signature helps create a culture where we don't assume and then misgender people, which in turn helps create a more inclusive work place then, yes, I am happy to do this!

putting my pronoun on my email signature helps create a culture where we don't assume and then misgender people, which in turn helps create a more inclusive work place

Actually it creates a culture where people either have to "out" themselves at work, or impact their dysphoria by putting the wrong pronouns for them.

I think it creates a culture where (a) pronoun-policing and compelled speech are encouraged, and people are encouraged to see misgendering as criminally offensive, and (b) being transgender is seen as sufficiently common and widespread and mainstream to merit being constantly alluded to - which may sound harmless (and kind to transgender people who don't want to be viewed as abnormal) but actually the more it's seen as mainstream, the more you'll get young girls questioning their own gender and encouraged to think they might "really" be boys. It just wouldn't have occurred to them in past decades. Now they're encouraged to think that it's a fairly widespread thing - and that has consequences.

There is also the fact that it has been established that when people think they are dealing with a man they treat them a lot better than when they think it is a woman. There was someone who used a female name and then a male name when communicating with people for work purposes, there was a marked difference. I will have a search for the source.

So no, I don't think it is worth making women's working lives more difficult just to placate a very few people with identity problems.

www.indy100.com/article/cv-name-male-female-man-woman-gender-wage-gap-job-applications-sexism-7874456

Ah, that word 'inclusive'.

assuming everyones identity can be ignorant

Can you please explain what you mean by ignorant @hallymac and why you think calling people ignorant doesn't make you a supercillious person?

@Starlightisthebestlight

There is also the fact that it has been established that when people think they are dealing with a man they treat them a lot better than when they think it is a woman. There was someone who used a female name and then a male name when communicating with people for work purposes, there was a marked difference. I will have a search for the source.

So no, I don't think it is worth making women's working lives more difficult just to placate a very few people with identity problems.

Well, quite. In a male-dominated area, my entirely noncommittal name and title have been a useful feature that goes some small way to compensate for:

Being physically small
Having maternity leave
Being assumed to be the PA
etc etc

Why would I want to add ‘being patronized over email too’ to that?

I won't be putting my pronouns, I have a name with a short version more often used for men. I get a marked improvement in email response rate if people think I'm a man.

Why would I purposely disadvantage myself?

On a separate note I didn't realise this was a resurrected zombie thread and was momentarily delighted to see LangCleg posting on 1st page until I checked the date

@hallymac

Hello everyone! I came across this thread whilst google searching for my own answer to if I should start putting 'she/her' on my email signature.

I thought I'd share this link :
www.bottomline.org/content/support-gender-inclusive-pronouns

which was quite helpful for me to understand why stating your pronouns can be a helpful step in moving towards a more inclusive world for people of all genders and identities. I realised that the reason why I thought it wasn't important for me first, was because people would assume I was obviously female from my name (or if they knew me). But then I learnt that actually, assuming everyones identity can be ignorant and sometimes very hurtful.

If putting my pronoun on my email signature helps create a culture where we don't assume and then misgender people, which in turn helps create a more inclusive work place then, yes, I am happy to do this!

What do you mean by gender or identity?

So if required, here are my pronouns

If you are using pronouns in a sex sense, please use whatever you feel is appropriate
If this makes no sense to you, please use whatever you feel is appropriate

If you are using them in a gender sense, please use he, his or they,

@EverardDigby

"Did you know that there's research that when women are reminded about our sex, our performance drops on tasks?"

This. Plus "I've seen trans people on Twitter saying they don't like it, because it keeps a constant focus on gender ID, when they are just trying to be accepted as who they are". True btw - the pressure to bang on about pronouns seems to be coming much more from self-important 'allies' and 'queer' teens (i.e. straight kids trying to appropriate gay culture) than trans people themselves.

Drawing attention to your female sex in the workplace may not work in your favour. I tend to use initials and surname as much as possible to avoid the negative biases of other people.

(And no, I am not JK Rowling 😂)

Ha, was going to shout zombieeeee but then saw it was resurrected by this poster who apparently innocently googled a question lol
which was quite helpful for me to understand why stating your pronouns can be a helpful step in moving towards a more inclusive world for people of all genders and identities
Yeah, you're new to round here, aren't ya lol?!
I personally would think "meh" to adding my pronouns and do it anyway as no skin off my nose to add them, if it makes it easier for others to not get misgendered.
I know I'm in the minority though

Not RTFT

It doesn't even make sense

If you are emailing someone you say hi shiny how are you? Have you got the thing.

?

@hallymac

Hello everyone! I came across this thread whilst google searching for my own answer to if I should start putting 'she/her' on my email signature.

I thought I'd share this link :
www.bottomline.org/content/support-gender-inclusive-pronouns

which was quite helpful for me to understand why stating your pronouns can be a helpful step in moving towards a more inclusive world for people of all genders and identities. I realised that the reason why I thought it wasn't important for me first, was because people would assume I was obviously female from my name (or if they knew me). But then I learnt that actually, assuming everyones identity can be ignorant and sometimes very hurtful.

If putting my pronoun on my email signature helps create a culture where we don't assume and then misgender people, which in turn helps create a more inclusive work place then, yes, I am happy to do this!

I know zombie thread and all, but mac, did you actually read the link you provided? It unequivocally states "everyone has a gender identity"

Sorry to disappoint but I surely do not have a gender identity.

Have you noticed that people who write passive aggressive sentences always finish with some sort of emoji.

It is equally fun with aggressive sentences. See example below:

I think you are a twat

MNHQ - this is not aimed at anyone in particular, and is for illustrative purposes

Not sure if the original poster is still reading the replies but the answer is simple - just say no and refuse to discuss it.

If you don't feel comfortable doing that or they insist on a reason, say 'You assume that every person is going to be comfortable with a) Disclosing their gender identity, and b) Declaring that for all to see on an email, and that's not right. Do you ask everyone what sexual orientation they have, and then expect them to declare that to the world on email too?

That should really shut them up. You don't have to add the last sentence unless you are pushed, but just listing a & b should get them to think about what they're asking. Just say you're not comfortable with disclosing either way, but don't let them label you as 'them' either. If I was asking for trouble, I would list 'bo' or 'ray' as my pronouns or something like that. How would they know they weren't? Apparently, there are over a hundred pronouns. Are they really going to look and if they aren't there, are they really going do dare argue with you over it? XD

Lol @AskDan. I used to work in a very cult-like, oppressive environment where any woman with a brain was a target. I think I was mildy told off once because my email to someone seen as higher than me was a bit too direct, and the reason why I think is because I didn't make enough of an effort to appear small, friendly and inoffensive in front of their greatness and and smilies everywhere.

@thirdfiddle

And yes rainbows everywhere. No-one's interested in your sexuality beyond in the sense of how's the family/what are you doing at the weekend. It's like a giant corporate game of "share if you care about cancer".

Ughhh. Yes. A company I worked for had someone always competitively doing something for charity, or asking for donations. The managers had the absolute cheek to ask people on barely the minimum wage for this money, even though we were the ones who needed charity on that wage!! I objected to their constant fund raising as well because we had no ideal where that money actually went. I don't think there was any follow up, no idea where those coins in their collection tin went.

@FantaOra

assuming everyones identity can be ignorant

Can you please explain what you mean by ignorant @hallymac and why you think calling people ignorant doesn't make you a supercillious person?

Assuming that everyone is comfortable with disclosing their gender identity is ignorant and insensitive too. Even if you believe in all of that, maybe some people aren't ready or are still working through it. Have you ever thought about that?

@NorthernIrishFeminist

I won't be putting my pronouns, I have a name with a short version more often used for men. I get a marked improvement in email response rate if people think I'm a man.

Why would I purposely disadvantage myself?

Oh that's sad :/ I remember a team in the BBC conducting a mini experiment a while ago where she emailed her book or proposal draft to 11 publishers. The results were really bad. I think most of them didn't even reply and she got more criticism on her work. When she sent off the same thing to the same publishers again under a male name, she got a much better response, an offer for a book deal, and much less criticism overall.

There is also plenty of good evidence that the sender of the email internalises the stereotypes of the pronouns.
For instance women in a patriarchal society become less assertive, less risk taking, when constantly reminded they are female.

Why would someone I'm emailing need to know my 3rd person pronouns?

Are they expected to keep a database so when they are emailing someone else and referring to me they can ensure they use the correct ones in case I somehow find out and dont give a shit feel invalidated as a person?

For the record, I am constantly being addressed as "Mr" or "sir" over email and I really couldn't care less 🤷‍♀️

Was reading this, saw a comment that looked good and scrolled up to see the poster.. LangCleg! I thought WOW, she's back!!

Then saw it was 2019. :(