Empathize with misogynistic women ?

[IABUQueen]

I’ve always been a self made activist trying to not judge and empathize with people who have been brainwashed by society... in order to reach a better understanding and help them question their ways and understanding..

I grew up with boys.. and despite facing being singled out as a girl but I somehow knew how to stand up for myself (I credit my father) in a male dominant upbringing and so it never affected my confidence and I don’t tend to take it personally.. because I automatically deal with it and speak up.

However... as I grew older I realized I have very little forgiveness towards my Misogynistic females who take out their toxic competition on me.. I tend to not know how to set boundaries with such females and

It sounds sexist so I’m trying to challenge myself on it and I realized the reason I can’t forgive it or empathize is because I actually don’t understand it... I take it personally. I don’t know how to avoid being sucked into it.. and I don’t know how to stand up for myself which results in me completely stuck with all the negativity.

I do seem to attract a lot of ladies who have faced issues and find me an easy target. About looks or superficial matters or about life choices. And I think it comes down to the fact I haven’t developed appropriate social skills in how to deal with such women because I’ve always just chosen to be friends with women like myself who are non judge mental and not confined by these sexist societal expectations and standards.

It’s starting to be a pattern where I genuinely coward away from many women who wouldn’t necessarily be my choice of a friend because of the way they put me down on my looks or choices and compete.. and i don’t know how to deal with it or brush it off.

I feel like , unknowingly, I do judge these women... to be selfish, vindictive and unkind.. Andy I usually bottle up anger towards them.. it eats me up. because I can’t unpick the behavior from the person and because I don’t understand it.

I am not proud of this. It’s a hurdle I’m working on.. I see a lot of my friends able to navigate through such relationships by putting boundaries and not taking things personal.. empathizing and just kindly standing up for themselves.

I struggle to not turn absolutely bitter when faced with such behavior and absolutely unforgiving.

Plz don’t be harsh on me. Can you help me see how I can navigate thought this ? I know I’m wrong.

I’ll give an example of a situation I was in:

There was a girl teenage girl who I was sharing accommodation with. She was lovely and we had a lot in common. We started doing activities together and as I was the older one (early twenties) I always felt a bit protective of her when she cried to me about problems she faced. I was very kind to her, went out of my way to make sure she doesn’t develop insecurities because of what she was facing..

She faced judgement around the colour of her skin (I’m a different skin tone), and about her achievements and about her behavior and dress sense and everything. Crushes and whatnot. I’ve always reassured her that i believe those standards are set up by petty people. She was surrounded by superficial people putting her down and I was always lifting her up..

She slowly started taking things out on me.. critiquing my choices and my looks after a year or two of her claiming I’m the only person that understand her.. she became heavily competitive. Now she is in her early twenties and I can’t help but feel shocked and hurt because I didn’t feel I deserved this behavior..

She is quite toxic in her competitiveness.. seethes when she sees me being acknowledged for any success and says spiteful things every time she sees me. Says snide things about my background and race which surprisingly is what used to hurt her from people. Used all the reassuring personal stories I told her about myself against me, to put me down....

I confronted her... she deeply regrets it.. she admits she has issues to work on.. and that she is a better person now...

But I can tell she has been programmmed to a point she lost control and is no longer the kind person I once knew.. I avoid her now...

But I can’t move on from the hurt. This isn’t the first person this happens with..

She claims that she loves me and she is trying hard to get close.. I know she is struggling. . but i genuinely can’t empathize with her and for the first time in my life I don’t actually wish her any happiness because she reallly hurt me badly and she knew it and continued.

This isn’t the first case. But it’s the most shocking because she is the youngest case for me.. and I’m surprised how I let it affect me.. and I was shocked to see the transition from a loving friendship to a vindictive lady.

Sorry for not responding to your query (don't know how to, have never experienced the problem you have) and going off at a tangent but I'm wondering if you're American?

No but my phone is! If you are wondering about the “z” in empathize it’s an autocorrect I need to fix.

(just to say - 'ize' spellings are perfectly British and are standard in many British publishers - it's not an 'American' spelling, contrary to popular belief. As you were!)

Am I posting this in the wrong section?

I think my advice would be to not expect sainthood and warm friendship from every woman. Feminism is, as I understand it, something which centres women - but we don't have to pretend to be bestest friends with every single woman. In fact, understanding that women are whole human beings, not tied to ideas of how women should be, is part and parcel of liberation.

A rule of thumb I have, given that there are women who I don't especially feel affection for, is that even if I don't like a women, I will always listen to her before I listen to a man, and I won't indulge in flagging her off with a bloke.

Sometimes that does take some self discipline - feminism in a patriarchy, where we are all conditioned a certain way, is definitely an active choice. But, to reassure you, women focused doesn't mean 'every woman is my friend'.

Women are human.

Not all humans are nice, and NONE of us are perfect.

A very good friend froze me out when I left my (2nd!) husband.
It was hurtful but I realise it was more to do with her own issues than mine.
Her dad passed away recently so I put a sympathy card through her door. She then deleted me from social media.

What are you gonna do? I just left her to it. Weirdly, her partner and I still get along great (shared hobby) and we just never mention her at all.

Flagging = slagging.

Not sure what flagging off with a bloke would involve and I dread to think given the weird proclivities men seem to have...

Yep I thought that was some weirdness that I had missed out on, and that you participated in. Each to their own

I've found that many of the rules for spotting the red flags in the early stages of relationships with men can be used to spot abusive or bullying women as well.

Thelnebriati..

Yes I think I grew up thinking that women are vulnerable due to patriarchy and that red flags and my guards need to be up with men...

But yes I am finding that shockingly that I was wrong and similar red flags are in women and that I really lowered my guards with women thinking we have a shared suffrage.

Floral

I don’t know if I’m expecting sainthood. It’s more like betrayal from women on the topic of misogynistic standards and pressure on us women cuts me really deeper than when it comes from men.

Somehow I expect many men are selfish and deal with it accordingly and stand up for myself and put my guard up. It’s guiltu until proven innocent.

But I somehow expect solidarity from women as I feel since we go through the same thing it’s more easy to empathize with each other.. I automatically go into full solidarity mode when I see a woman struggling with those standards and it affecting her insecurities.. I feel like because we walk in similar shoes under the same societal pressures, they’re innocent until proven guilty.. and when they put me down using said standards that they too suffered form, it really feels like it’s coming from a vindictive place of intended meanness and not just from selfishness and lack of empathy.. I tend to take it very personally..

I probably don’t make sense. Saying this out loud is helping me unpick the issue.. I’m open to the idea that my expectations of women are tainted and that I’m probably being angry with myself because I didn’t put necessary guards up.

There might be a reason to expect solidarity from a fellow declared feminist. I know the ding dongs we have within the movement can smart because we all have a tendency to lionize certain people or view points. But you really do have to push past those normal pitfalls of all human interaction.

Wrt women who haven't got any kind of grasp of feminist issues, I think there is definitely an assumption that women might be expected to have each other's backs in solidarity which isn't borne out by reality - ime, life in a system weighted towards men can actually be a fertile ground for proper backstabbing. There's a reason why Aunts and other abusive characters in The Handmaids Tale are female - women are very often some of the most enthusiastic proponents of misogyny because it can be a way to survive in the system.

Mary Wollstonecraft talked about that 200-odd years ago.