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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Language disguises thought: Cis and trans prefixes

18 replies

ixqik · 13/06/2019 10:03

Prefixes modify and define words. It occurred to me to wonder what is being stated when the prefix cis- is added to words like woman.

To my surprise, I found that the dictionary definition of cis- to be "a prefix denoting relative nearness (this side of) identical or main groups.”

In the case of cis-woman, the main group being referred to is all women. So a cis- woman is someone "near to but this side of a woman". Not a woman.

Which of course I consider myself to be, having been born female, and growing through girlhood to adult womanhood, and using my body to achieve motherhood: all honourable terms once clearly understood. I identified strongly with Helen Reddy’s "I am woman, hear me roar, in numbers too big to ignore". And I do realise, as she did, that there was and still is " a long, long way to go, until I make my brothers understand.”

Now, it would seem that it is some of my sisters who need to understand - that in classifying women into cis- and trans-women, others are in fact insulting those of us who are natal females.

For what does the prefix trans- mean when added to the word ‘woman'?

Trans is "a prefix meaning across or beyond, freely applied in geographical terms, also found attached to stems not used as words, and in figurative meanings such as transcend.” A trans-woman goes across or beyond woman.

This term seems to have developed from the more accurate older term “transsexual", which described going across or beyond one’s natal sex characteristics, and initially involved bodily changes, transformation as far a possible from one set of sexual characteristics to another.

“Transgender” also seems accurate in that the person goes across or beyond the gender usually associated with their natal sexual characteristics. (Cisgender, however, would literally mean close to, but not quite, gendered!)

But trans-women? Cis-women? These prefixes state that neither cis- nor trans- women are women as women were once defined. The cis-group are close to, the trans-group goes beyond, the now erased/obliterated from language main group, which is the now-redundant (biological) “woman" with her characteristic bodily structure and functions.

Or else logically, perhaps there is no normal woman; being a woman is just a social construct open to any person who chooses to adopt the term as descriptive of themselves, for whatever reason. Not a position I accept.

Am I the only logical person who finds this misuse of language ludicrous?

Who exactly was the first person who decided to classify me and all other adult biological females as not a woman, just an entity close to or this side of woman?
Was it a conscious (or simply unconsciously sexist) choice to use an implicitly derogatory prefix for biological females? along with a prefix implying superiority for those natal males who consider that they are women, and who usually claim the right to use that word about themselves without any modifying prefix.

Why did, or does, any woman accept this insulting prefix?

Did no one look up meaning as I have?

Will standard dictionaries come to accept an illogical word because social media uses it, and Wikipedia contains it, in an article possibly written by a person with a vested interest?

By what right does anyone, male or female, try to insist that I should accept their terminology for my own body and self? I don’t.

I am not a cis-woman. Even when bits of me are excised, or no longer function as they once did, I am simply a woman.

And all women need to reject the idea that we are more or less than that.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 13/06/2019 10:33

Not you're not the only one. I have been reading about queer theory and recommend Dr Em's recently posted essays as well as "what the fuck is queer theory". Language and meaning is being manipulated.

I don't use preferred pronouns, I use trans-identified-male/female, not transwoman/transman (unless it's to write TWAW). I will use gender dysphoria but otherwise try not to say gender as it is wrongly used interchangeably and in place of sex. I'm trying to avoid using trans and stick to the original words instead of giving unintentional support to the ideology through language. I will never use cis unless it's to say "I'm am not sis, please don't use that won't around me, it is as offensive to me as the word cunt".

And no, I don't think anyone checked the meaning before using I think they just thought it was a good word and took it for themselves without asking.

Throckmorton · 13/06/2019 23:33

As I understand it, cis implies that your sex is the same as your gender. So if you think gender is a load of bollocks, then cis-woman makes no bloody sense and is insulting. Basically, anyone trying to call me a cis woman can lay the fuck off labelling me.

Throckmorton · 13/06/2019 23:34

God, that sounded ranty! I'm basically agreeing with you, but with extra swearing :)

ScottishDoll · 14/06/2019 02:04

This particular language was robbed from stereoisomerism. Yet another misappropriation. Mention cis or trans to anyone with a vague chemistry knowledge and this is what they think of.

www.chemicool.com/definition/stereoisomers.html
www.britannica.com/science/hydrocarbon/Stereoisomerism

ScottishDoll · 14/06/2019 02:12

Define red.

A good illustration of the logic fail got from here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3600308-Tools-for-recognising-manipulative-abuse

Language disguises thought:  Cis and trans prefixes
Cwenthryth · 14/06/2019 02:17

Yes, my thoughts are from chemistry too. I’m neither an isomer, nor recognise gender as a concept relevant to my identity, so either way, it’s not a term I find appropriate to describe myself with, nor any other woman who hasn’t expressly permitted it, given the implications for a woman of identifying with her own oppression.

I also do not find the glib explanation ‘oh it just means not trans’ as a reason why it’s not a pejorative term as faintly ridiculous, given its popular use now - the protest outside Edinburgh university, that preceded the violent attack against Julie Bindel, was chanting ‘die cis scum’. Like arguing that ‘heathen’ or ‘infidel’ means simply ‘not Christian/Muslim’. Yeah right.

NeurotrashWarrior · 14/06/2019 06:42

Hence "trans identified males" is more appropriate but we are not allowed to call a spade a spade say that.

Cwenthryth · 14/06/2019 07:11

I think we can use that term occasionally in the context you’ve just done, neuro, esp as you’ve acknowledged it’s verboten here, and you’re not actually labelling any specific person - the issue is calling individuals/groups by terms they object to, as many of us object to cis hence most posts referring to individuals/groups as cis will be deleted if reported (ie objected to). MNHQ have drawn a line of tit-for-tat ‘courtesy’ there, although it still involves compelled speech to significant degree for most of us who actually use the site, I feel.

ChattyLion · 14/06/2019 09:04

Thank you for this interesting thread. Thanks for the post Cwen, I will borrow your very clear rationale as and when needed.

BobbinThreadbare123 · 14/06/2019 09:41

I don't think of this in chemistry terms but astronomy ones; cis-Neptunian objects are in the orbit of Neptune ie relative nearness to the planet Neptune but not beyond it. So cis-woman actually denotes someone who is an approximation of a woman, by that definition.

happydappy2 · 14/06/2019 18:41

OP I agree completely. We all know what the word woman means, and it simply cannot include men, in any shape or form. I have just started a thread asking MNHQ to reconsider controlling our language, many women find the word transwoman confusing/unclear/slightly insulting. Trans identifying Male is more factually accurate. I reject the term transwoman now (never used to) but in this current climate regaining control of language is paramount. For example, stating that trans identifying males should not be housed in women’s prisons, is substantially clearer & more honest than the alternative, using the word transwomen.

NeurotrashWarrior · 14/06/2019 21:46

Thanks cwen, I'm starting to doubt my sanity. Sane words.

Agrona · 15/06/2019 02:35

ixqik , thank you for this. It is very illuminating.

MockerstheFeManist · 15/06/2019 07:38

"Language is not the vehicle. It is the driver."

  • Neil Postman
SpeakUpXXWomen · 15/06/2019 11:28

I think trans identifying male is slightly more accurate but still vague to those not up to speed with the current debate on transgender ideology. We need to use language that is completely transparent to all in order to have meaningful discussion.

I have said this on the other thread too but I think the language used has to have the fact first to make it clear to all so;

Man who identifies as transgender/alien/child/whatever.

barelove · 15/06/2019 11:38

Man who identifies as transgender/alien/child/whatever.

Yep, I think on the other thread you said 'male who identifies as transgender' which is what I use. I think it's even better than trans identified male as the first example puts the relevant (for the purpose of women's safety, statistics, fairness in sport etc) subject first i.e male.

ChickenonaMug · 15/06/2019 12:23

So does this mean, using the diagram that ScottishDoll has posted and the definitions of the words cis and trans, that:

Define Red:-

Cis Red is a sort of pink (or near to red)

Trans Red is purple (or beyond red)

There is now no actual definition for the real colour red, as red is now a collective term for pink and purple.

However in reality, that pink is still red and the purple is still blue, although this distinction is no longer considered important amongst a significant number of people.

ixqik · 16/06/2019 03:47

A useful article has come up on Medium which is helpful for pinning down the language of trans.
medium.com/@aytchellis/talking-past-each-other-about-trans-gender-1da8e058caf8?fbclid=IwAR2ACYGl7JvR6PM79eutcP563STEDiEpwhZyulKBX7Q5hwiABxiSLD4mRVE

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