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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Want to be a male ally? Start by cleaning the house'

20 replies

BalletBunting · 12/06/2019 15:52

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/12/want-to-be-a-male-ally-start-by-helping-clean-the-house?CMP=share_btn_tw
Love this! May have to send it to DH Wink

OP posts:
MangoesAreMyFavourite · 12/06/2019 16:05

But a growing awareness among women hasn’t been enough to fix the problem.

No shit Sherlock!

youkiddingme · 12/06/2019 16:22

But don't you know you can have (DO) it all dear?
While women were fighting for equality in the workplace, men just weren't out there waving banners for the right to get at the dishcloths and hoover.
And liberal men are pretty good at saying they love quiche while wolfing down a McD.

NoSquirrels · 12/06/2019 23:38

I loved this until the last paragraph, where it becomes clear it’s (still) a woman’s problem to deal with...

Also - the strap line. Doesn’t “Male ally” mean ally to men? Usually it’s “how to be a trans ally/LGBTQ+ ally” which definitely means ally to the group belong mentioned. So shouldn’t the standfirst say “female ally”?

teawamutu · 13/06/2019 08:09

I agree entirely with the premise, and the writer may well not have chosen the headline, but 'helping' really boils my piss.

Men should not 'help' the ladies with what is really their job: they should pull their fucking weight

StVincent · 13/06/2019 08:18

This programme dealt with it much better! www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0005t3n

Ameanstreakamilewide · 13/06/2019 13:47

My nan used to say 'The more you do, the more he'll let you'.

Wise words.

WrathofGRAkIop · 13/06/2019 13:53

The more you do, the more he'll let you

Ameanstreak, your nan got it spot on.

stillathing · 13/06/2019 14:59

On a related tangent, I'd like to run a "change every nappy" campaign for new fathers. Really fucks me off when they whine about feeling excluded from the bond shared between breastfeeding mother and baby. Bonds are built through repeated caring interactions. You have to put the work in (just like the mother does, feeding at all hours). Nappy changes are almost as important.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 13/06/2019 15:13

Great idea still.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 13/06/2019 15:15

And if the fathers did change every nappy then the mothers would probably have a better time surviving cluster feeding too.

DJLippy · 13/06/2019 15:53

makemorenoise.libsyn.com/suffragette-city-radio-four-the-music-industry-and-the-domestic-prison

Podcast on the power imbalances in heterosexual relationships.

MIdgebabe · 13/06/2019 16:34

Ok I’ll stir this a little. I often see that men don’t “pull their weigt” with the housework. But I also see that the women complaining about this most have a set of ideas about what needs to be done and to what standard and are not prepared to deviate from what they expect at all. When what you often have is a lack of agreement on what is really needed. Batchelors don’t tend to die from dirty kitchens and unironed clothes, they often chose to live their lives that way. Why should a batchelor change his habits to meet the female expectation?

This could be another way of asking, are women judged more harshly than men for dirty doorsteps making it more important to women to scrub e

I guess this come see from the hugely different standards I have compared to the rest of the family. Which also reminds me, mother is visiting soon, We will need ironed sheets with no holes ...

youkiddingme · 13/06/2019 16:44

Difficult one midgebabe as I know I have highter standards than my DH and he's much less bothered by mess than me.
But he admits he sometimes chooses to do it poorly so he won't get asked again. I do ask again though and will lower my standards, but will make sure I don't always give him the same job as I just have to do it properly myself sometimes.
I've also found that the best way to get hubby to do a job well is to do a rubbish job myself, then He'll come and finish it off!

teawamutu · 13/06/2019 16:47

I have admittedly low standards, but if I thought dh was doing something badly just so I'd take over, the lack of respect would be a potential deal breaker for me.

We share the jobs because that's fair.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 13/06/2019 16:50

Ameanstreakamilewide your Nan has it spot on.

I have to say, most of the negative comments about DP being a SAHD and doing the majority of housework/life admin/childcare since we swapped and I went back to work have come from women at the school gates! His response is "why not? Heat did it for long enough, and supported me in my job, why wouldn't I do the same for her?" Seems to blow their tiny minds a bit.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 13/06/2019 16:51

We have always shared housework/childcare/life admin on days off though, and still do. Irrespective of who was working full time.

sawdustformypony · 13/06/2019 18:47

bloody do-gooders

FeministCat · 13/06/2019 20:57

My nan used to say 'The more you do, the more he'll let you'

Smart woman! This is why I do little (kidding, kind of).

But seriously, not only do I dislike cleaning, I just don’t want to spend the little spare time I have not working to do it. The Roomba handles the floors, my husband does the toilets (always been the agreement!), and we hire a cleaner to do a “big clean” once a month. We are both quite clean and don’t like clutter or have much stuff laying around to gather dust so all that is really left between big cleans is the normal pick up after yourself and keep your habitat nice kind of things: wipe down the counters after you make a sandwich & load and unload the dishwasher kind of stuff, for which we both do. We both do laundry, take out the trash, feed and brush the cat, all those other things that need to be done. He also does the Costco run which is just the worst.

I have lived with a man before who was less egalitarian when it came to household work, he just didn’t “see” things the way I did. I think it helped that when I met my husband not only was he older, but he grew up with a single mom who expected him to pitch in just the same as his sister, and he had spent years on his own and in the military where there were expectations. Plus he is just not a slob. We have always dealt with kind of odd work schedules (with me typically having a lot more hours and late nights) and I have never had to come home from work late and be met with a mess.

I really don’t understand men who can’t pick up after themselves and don’t see taking care of their habitat as a necessity they too are responsible for. They don’t have to love doing it - I sure don’t - but it’s part of being an adult and being a respectful partner.

Erythronium · 13/06/2019 21:30

video games

I shouldn't laugh, but hahaha. Important man-time.

But he admits he sometimes chooses to do it poorly so he won't get asked again.

Doesn't this give you the rage youkiddingme? He's a lazy git, doing it badly so you'll do it. Sorry.

youkiddingme · 14/06/2019 11:13

Mmm, well his standards are lower than mine, and his own standards vary (as do mine depending on how much time or energy we have) so what he's saying is he knows I will think he's done a piss-poor job but he's sticking with putting in only as much effort as he feels like. Which is sort of fair enough really, just wish he had higher standards.
And he can hope I will do it, but I generally choose not to.
We both have faults and actually I always find that when he admits to his he is open to change. Now he's owned up he knows I can say, 'please do this particular thing well, as it's really important to me because...' and chances are he will. In fairness in the past I used to expect him to do things to my standards which isn't fair either.
We're a pair of old fogies from another era evolving together slowly lol.

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