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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Black mirror season 5 striking vipers

14 replies

chilling19 · 07/06/2019 19:46

Has anyone watched this? I really like Black Mirror has in general. This episode has so many layers.

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Voice0fReason · 07/06/2019 23:06

Yes - very interesting (as always)
Porn causing damage in a relationship - no surprise there.

chilling19 · 08/06/2019 09:12

I thought it was great, but the ending sucked.

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PackingSoap · 08/06/2019 09:52

I wondered whether someone would post about this.

I watched it last night, and it struck me as a very interesting comment on how virtual worlds and avatars interact with reality, confuse boundaries and throw identities into question.

The question over whether the two men are in a gay relationship is pertinent. Again, if you go by Stonewall definitions, is Karl trans? And what are the implications of that identity for someone like Karl whose "transness" is only virtual?

A lot of reviews I've read haven't really picked up on a lot of the subtle commentary in the episode.

The ending, I think, is even more interesting. Instead of a confrontation, what you get is a situation where the characters subtly ignore these and a compromise is found, purely because the possibly consequences of the answers are too much to deal with.

chilling19 · 09/06/2019 14:37

Packing yes I agree. Re the ending - you are right it avoided the unpicking of the situation, which does reflect society's refusal to acknowledge the harms of porn. Which is why I was disappointed and felt it was a cop out. Apart from this, I thought it was a thought provoking episode particularly the trans theme running through it.

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HappyPunky · 10/06/2019 11:38

I appreciated that the men saw it as a gay relationship.
The homophobia of TRAs saying that a man and a transwoman are in a heterosexual relationship disgusts me.

They also made the point that women's orgasms are better. TRAs tend to think they have female orgasms after surgery but we obviously know they don't.

OvaHere · 10/06/2019 11:51

I didn't think the orgasms thing made sense. We saw earlier in the episode when his son kicked him that he felt the kick on his real body. So any orgasm induced by the game would still have been experienced as a male orgasm because he only has male genitals regardless of the avatar he is playing.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2019 12:45

I think the endings on black mirror are frequently rubbish.

You get a subject or dystopia which is really interesting and thought provoking and really hits a nerve.

And then Charlie Brooker has to end the discussion quickly in order to shoe horn it into a time limited episode and because these discussions are complex you either get an incomplete unsatisfied ending or a really dark, disturbing one which gives you nightmares. And there's no middle ground.

I like black mirror and think it gives voice to issues in society and the direction it's heading, but it's always got the same structural problem with the nature of a visual story format, that an indepth book doesn't suffer from in the same way.

chilling19 · 11/06/2019 00:07

Red yes, you are right about the shoehorning. Some episodes have been excellent but perhaps could do with being twice as long. I felt like I was watching a film, that suddenly finished.

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StopThePlanet · 11/06/2019 17:21

I didn't think the orgasms thing made sense. We saw earlier in the episode when his son kicked him that he felt the kick on his real body. So any orgasm induced by the game would still have been experienced as a male orgasm because he only has male genitals regardless of the avatar he is playing.

We paused the episode at this point (description of female orgasm vs male) to discuss this issue. It is completely illogical and made zero sense... our genitalia and male genitalia can't possibly experience the opposite sensations - nerve endings yada yada yada.

The idea of VR avatars giving men the perception that they 'can actually know' how it feels to be a woman is a scary slippery slope we don't need in light of the current TRA narratives. Because of course a highly sexualized avatar without any female biological pinnings is the 'female experience'.

The male characters denied their same sex attraction except when in VR but felt romantic love towards each other IRL. The wife character had resigned to the idea that she was not appealing to her husband - her body and looks had failed her. Her character said (paraphrasing) she gave up passion for marriage. The male characters were so uncomfortable with their reality that they found more passion and sexual drive as avatars than real people. I walked away feeling like the portrayal was homo=bad/awkward,trans=good/preferred, hetero=yawn/dispassionate. The two of them as avatars was much preferred over their real life bodies for sex - that gay was awkward and wrong but the two of them pounding it out as a hetero coupling was not only preferred but acceptable. Meanwhile the wife goes out to meet a stranger for a passionate encounter. The woman put herself in a potentially dangerous real life situation (picking up a stranger) while her husband sat safely at home in VR avatar form fucking his lover/friend. How fucked is this?

The wife was good enough to live with, to have children, to have sex, to "love", but she is not good enough for passion even though she is an actual woman. The passion was stuffing male avatar genitals into female avatar genitals (a contrived version of woman). Real women are good for the heavy lifting but fucking your buddy in VR woman-face is preferred for sexual gratification - I mean it's transcendent isn't it? Ah having your cake and eating it too... passionately in love with your buddy and settling for day-to-day with your wife. Celebrated misogyny, all for men and men for men!

We usually enjoy Black Mirror - we see it as a modern day take on the Twilight Zone (which we have both loved since childhood). This episode was disappointing - acting was decent but the story was lame. We both felt irritated at the end and turned to sci-fi for creative and intellectual relief.

OvaHere · 11/06/2019 17:54

Thanks StopThePlanet that's a really good explanation of how I felt about it.

StopThePlanet · 11/06/2019 18:16

OvaHere

You're welcome! Grin The episode left me feeling dispassionate about Black Mirror -being a perceiver (not a judger) it isn't a death sentence but left me complacent about coming episodes.

So far this season of Black Mirror has been the pits IMO (saw this one and the pop doll Miley Cyrus so far).

BTW, I love your name!!!!

OvaHere · 11/06/2019 18:46

Thanks

I agree the latest three were subpar. I get the impression the time and budget mostly went into Bandersnatch hence the three shorter episodes suffered for it.

It's had a good run though, most shows start getting a bit stale past 4 or 5 seasons.

StopThePlanet · 11/06/2019 18:58

It's had a good run though, most shows start getting a bit stale past 4 or 5 seasons.

Agreed, few shows stay interesting past the season 4 mark.

CaptainBrickbeard · 11/06/2019 19:03

I hated the final sex scene where he had his hand on her throat (possibly not the final one actually, maybe an earlier one). Choking is suddenly so mainstream and it’s so scary. I love Black Mirror but this whole episode felt a bit problematic, for many of the reasons stated on the thread already.

If VR were to take off this way, people would get absolutely addicted - it would destroy lives I think. I can’t imagjne the ‘happy compromise’ of this episode would be many people’s reality. I think society would stop functioning!

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