Encouraging "girliness" to discourage certain future problems

[FlutterShite]

I'm wrestling with this and wondered what your thoughts were. My young daughter in primary school is quite robust and active - she loves the kind of activities that could potentially mark her out as "really a boy" at some point in the future, is remarked upon for climbing trees (yes, seriously!) and enjoying getting muddy and scruffed up.

Recently she'd leaned towards toys like dolls and the more princessy-type Playmobil, and has started to show an interest in more obviously feminine clothes and accessories.

Nothing wrong with that, but I understand the social and commercial influences that are steering her towards these things. However, contrary to how I would have responded a few years ago, I'm thinking I should let her go full-on "girly" to reduce the risk of her being advised at a later date that she is probably trans because she has supposedly male traits.

I'd really appreciate a feminist viewpoint on this. I don't know many women IRL who would get what I'm even on about, especially those who've waxed their girls' eyebrows and let them wear make-up since they were tiny. Am I being odd just thinking about this? Or would I be letting the side down by reinforcing the message that yes, girls should fit into these boxes?

I wouldn’t make too much of it. Children go through phases. Trying to discourage a young child from doing ‘girls’ things or ‘boys’ things might be more confusing and lead to more problems IMO. As she gets older you can have more in depth conversations about Male and female socialisation. I’d like to let mine just be kids and do what they like for as long as possible. My dd is 4 and hasn’t really shown that she even understands what a boy/girl is and certainly doesn’t seem to realise that there are ‘girl’ or ‘boy’ toys. Long may it last.

Thanks, Tinyteatime.

there's a middle way - I mean you don't have to say or show that girls "should" do anything. Let her find her own way.

then think what you'd do without the problems that are currently facing us. If she wanted her nails done, would you say yes or no? At the risk of being flamed, I'd say "no, maybe when you are older".

it's okay to say there's a time for princess dresses if that's what you feel like, and there's a time for climbing trees and they might occur in the same hour!

I just told my daughter there's no such thing as boys toys/games or girls equivalents. They are all just toys/games/clothes - wear what you want, play how stimulates you.
She used to have long hair, wear dresses, climb trees, play in the mud etc. She's since had her hair cut and now prefers leggings and t-shirts.
If she wants to shave her legs and wear makeup I'm fine with that, if she doesn't, that's good too.

I understand your fears. However we need to arm girls now, and trans lobbyists, with the clear knowledge that 'female' doesn't mean 'performs currently fashionable stereotypes' (as those constantly evolve and change) and that females can wear pink and high heels and fix their own cars and have short hair and play rugby, females are free to do whatever they want. The only thing they have in common is their biology. Same for arming boys and trans lobbyists with the knowledge that boys can equally do whatever they want without it meaning they are not male.

Otherwise it's just conforming to a lot of stereotypes for no reason in which nobody is happy and nobody wins, and females especially lose.

Fluttershite - I totally get what you mean, and your worries. When I was young I was a tomboy, cut my hair short, wanted to be a little brother to my big brother (only cos boys got to do better 'stuff' in my young eyes). My 8 year old DD is more stereotypically 'girly', and I'm glad of that, that we are not going to be pushed down any rabbit hole.

I am GC and a feminist, following the trans debates with despair for my DD. I encourage my DD still to think outside the box. Her older female cousin is at uni doing engineering, so DD is also interested in engineering, inventing etc. We read Goodnight Stories for Rebel Girls' among others. With my older DS's we discuss the trans debate, biology etc . So I am hopefully bringing up my DD to be broad minded , thinking she is capable of non typically female jobs. That she has choices.

I just keep harping very strongly on the "Anybody can like anything" message. It's important that they realise anybody, of any sex, can enjoy any activity.

Please don't dampen individuality by forcing stereotypes, that's not going to fix anything.

I would also be saying that nothing is a girl or boy attribute.

Waxed their girls eyebrows? Bloody hell. Child cruelty 101.

Do nothing.

As a child I was always a bit different. Played with the boys, not into dolls and Oran’s, loved tractors and tipper trucks (toys that “did” things 😊). I was always in dungarees digging in the garden, not a girlie girl at all.

I’m all grown up now. Was a professional ballet dancer (trained at same school as Darcey!) and became quite the swan after growing up as the tom boy 🤷🏻‍♀️

Each to their own!

What Michelleoftheresistance said.

For me, feminism is about giving choices to women. If she wants to climb trees or play princesses, she should.

My DD goes from Barbie to Ninjago in the blink of an eye and so does my son.

I was just wondering if it was something about being encouraged to play with gender-stereotyped toys as girls that leads some women not to realise when they are having the p**s taken out of them and the care of the keratin-based structures of their bodies?

Just asking.

I just keep harping very strongly on the "Anybody can like anything" message. It's important that they realise anybody, of any sex, can enjoy any activity.

This is what I do. I make stuff available, and if they like it, they do it, if they don't they don't (I do strongly disapprove of not even trying something out I must admit). I'm certainly not going to push them into things (OK.. piano lessons I do make them do... and nudge towards actually doing something rather than sitting home playing XBox.. so I'm not totally passive)

You cant control the other 7 billion people. You can only manage yourself and your relationship with her.

Tell her now that people are not defined by their clothes, hair, toys or other choices, and humans cannot change sex. We are born one sex and we stay the same sex throughout our lives.
Our bodies change as they age, it can be uncomfortable getting used to the changes during puberty, pregnancy and ageing. All of this is completely normal.
And tell her she can talk to you about anything.

You are right to be worried! I am also mum to two DDs who I have also been brought up to reject sexist stereotypes. However a few years ago I spoke to a few parents of girls with ROGD, and they said they had brought up their daughters similarly. They ALL said the biggest thing to be aware of is the power of trans cult sites on the web - tumbler, youtube channels glamourising transition etc. I am encouraging my daughters to be proud of being girls, that girls can do anything, and that there are no such things are 'girl's thing' and 'boy's things'. I am also bringing them up with sharply developed critical thinking skills, and the knowledge that as girls they absolutely have the right to boundaries and to assert them.

is remarked upon for climbing trees

i'd give a piece of my mind to someone who makes those remarks

Personally I think the only thing you can do is foster a strong sense of self, good self esteem, and a strong wariness of social media with critical thinking skills!

As per previous comments, I just bang on with the message that DD can be anything, play with anything, wear anything.

She has been known to roll her eyes & sigh at me because she 'knows blue isn't just for boys and pink isn't just for girls'

And she loves climbing trees wearing her pink sparkly crocs

I think the points about being aware of other influences is also very pertinent. Kids need to be aware that critical thinking skills are very useful in sifting the various messages out there.
As parents we will still face the possibility our children will nonetheless think differently to us.

Thank you for these thoughtful and helpful replies. I have always reinforced the message about girls being able to achieve anything, wear anything, look as they wish - and countered the "that's a girl thing/that's a boy thing" nonsense from school etc. We're also lucky that my daughter belongs to some mixed sports clubs with great young female role models.

I agree that it's all about self-esteem, critical thinking, being open about feelings, awareness of powerful messages and so on.

Thanks.

Nquartz that sounds familiar!

I would leave her be. She likes what she likes and should be allowed to follow her own interests. I was quite a tomboy child but l am little bit more girly now. It’s never been a problem for me