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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronouns are Rohypnol

44 replies

Lamaha · 04/06/2019 07:23

The original artical was apparently deleted from Medium, and this is a cache. Very thought-provoking. It demonstrates just how using the "wrong" pronouns messes with our brains. It's not just about being polite and courteous.

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3ASPK6ZOcWUnYJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40barrakerr%2Fpronouns-are-rohypnol-dbcd1cb9c2d9+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari&fbclid=IwAR3kCZOWM3RwHhHqnC1EOrjPQxJstHHxhyFKv4MSOeIoCk46G4zbL-5NFrk

Pronouns are Rohypnol
OP posts:
Orchidoptic · 04/06/2019 07:44

Mind blowing.

Lamaha · 04/06/2019 07:45

No-one else will be hurt or affected by this private experiment. It’s entirely between you, and your own resilient mind. (Try not to get banned from anywhere during this experiment.)

I hope I'm safe here on Mumsnet. But I think EVERYONE experiences cognitive dissonance, even the nice woke people, when they read a newspaper article about a burly bearded "woman" convicted of rape, but addressed as "she" throughout the article. And they themselves are having a good laugh...

OP posts:
EmpressLesbianInChair · 04/06/2019 07:46

The article’s now being hosted at uncommongroundmedia.com/banned-from-medium-pronouns-are-rohypnol/

terfsandwich · 04/06/2019 07:50

I think this is a very interesting piece in light of the latest male woman-murderer who got the green light to self identify into a women's prison. The Daily Mail article refers to him as "she", invoking the weak as kittens factor. It would be interesting to know if the Daily Mail considered changing the pronouns to correctly sex him.

terfsandwich · 04/06/2019 07:51

I am of course referring to the murderer and torturer as "he" because Mumsnet allows it for men who commit heinous crimes.

TirisfalPumpkin · 04/06/2019 08:06

because Mumsnet allows it for men who commit heinous crimes.

Whut? Where’s that written down?

Surely a rapist or murderer’s deeply held feelings about their gender are just as valid as anyone else

Ameanstreakamilewide · 04/06/2019 08:10

Pumpkin, the men who commit such heinous crimes, don't deserve to be pandered to, on any conceivable level.
And using their 'preferred pronouns' is giving them credit they don't deserve.

I personally wouldn't give them bread and water, in prison, but that's just me!

TirisfalPumpkin · 04/06/2019 08:12

Oh, I don’t disagree - am just questioning why there’s a special exemption for sufficiently bad men. Where is the cut off? Is it just murderers or rapists, or (for example) is Maria Mac’s assailant a ‘he’ given he was convicted of a violent offence against a woman?

NottonightJosepheen · 04/06/2019 08:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 04/06/2019 08:26

I do understand what you mean, actually, Pumpkin; that's an interesting point.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 04/06/2019 08:27

am just questioning why there’s a special exemption for sufficiently bad men

Yes, that is an interesting question. We can correctly sex criminals, but anyone else gets to compel our speech even if they’re not present. Interesting.

Michelleoftheresistance · 04/06/2019 08:56

am just questioning why there’s a special exemption for sufficiently bad men

I've always also found that interesting in wondering whether HQ agree that someone sufficiently 'bad' doesn't deserve the courtesy of others jumping through linguistic hoops - which agrees that it is a courtesy dependent on reciprocation that in some circumstances is acceptable to refuse - or whether a man who is sufficiently 'bad' shouldn't be seen as 'properly trans', an argument the TRA lobby have used before now. Particularly for example in the Karen White case.

Which seems just as illogical, because Karen White is as trans as anyone else is. The whole point of this (and no point in talking about self ID any more because it's been slid in by stealth anyway) is that any male who says he is, must be counted as trans. With all the entry to women's spaces that comes with it. Regardless of whether that person is lovely and a pillar of society or a sex offender/ murderer.

Which proves the point that TW cannot be counted in the same set as biological women in every single way without exemption, because the biological women have specific needs and rights too that involve separation from biological males.

AlwaysComingHome · 04/06/2019 09:12

Either all transwomen are women, ‘without exception’, or no transwomen are women, even the nice ones. Womanhood isn’t conditional on behaviour.

LangCleg · 04/06/2019 09:14

From the FAQ on the extra requirements imposed on feminists here:

What about, for example, Karen White – is it ok to say he is a man and call him 'he'?

We think we've allowed for flexibility and context here; we’re unlikely to delete where an individual is primarily known for extreme or criminal actions undertaken before they transitioned.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/06/2019 09:23

* because Mumsnet allows it for men who commit heinous crimes.

Whut? Where’s that written down?

Surely a rapist or murderer’s deeply held feelings about their gender are just as valid as anyone else*

It's in the guidelines. It used to refer to Huntley, iirc

^ What about, for example, Karen White – is it ok to say he is a man and call him 'he'?
We think we've allowed for flexibility and context here; we’re unlikely to delete where an individual is primarily known for extreme or criminal actions undertaken before they transitioned.^

www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy.

This exemption of course runs counter to the stonewall-type 'logic'.

TirisfalPumpkin · 04/06/2019 09:27

Thank you, Lang - although that seems to make even less sense, as Karen White wasn’t a particularly famous male rapist; he is primarily known for assaulting women in a women’s prison post-transition.

Melioration · 04/06/2019 09:43

If you want to be a woman you can be, if you are nice. You can be called she and use the ladies and everyone will be nice about it.

If you want to be a woman and are not so nice it can be overlooked because we wouldn’t want to paint the nice women with the same brush.

If you aren’t very nice then that’s ok because not all women are nice and there is the law for those who aren’t nice. You are definitely a woman if you say so. Who is to say what is nice anyway.

If you are really horrible then that is ok because they will just have to deal with it. There are lots of horrible people in prisons. Anyway someone else said you were a woman so we just have to deal with it.

If you rape then that is ok because there was a woman once who did it and the prisons have some awful women in them so they know how to deal with it. Keep your wig on though.

NeurotrashWarrior · 04/06/2019 12:29

Come in it's the 80's (as in 1984) we all must read between the lines...

OrchidInTheSun · 04/06/2019 12:54

Barracker has now also kindly given Fair Play for Women permission to host the article Smile

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Lamaha · 04/06/2019 12:58

Oops. I didn't know this: it was originally posted on Mumsnet and the author received a 7day ban.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 04/06/2019 13:49

Oops. I didn't know this: it was originally posted on Mumsnet and the author received a 7day ban.

barracker's suspension was rescinded.
interesting and important thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3595379-Can-we-stop-being-obedient-soon-or-will-this-coercion-continue-for-evermore

Datun · 04/06/2019 14:15

Barracker's Rohypnol piece is being read absolutely bloody everywhere, now. People falling over themselves to host it.

And the people you can thanks for this are transactivists. Who never, ever learn.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/06/2019 14:54

Is it a case of the Streisand Effect meets the Stroop Effect, maybe?

littlbrowndog · 04/06/2019 15:02

It’s weird isn’t. If you are a good male person who thinks they are a woman then we have to use the she/her

If you are a bad male person who thinks they are a woman then it’s fine to call that bad person he

I can’t seem to work out how bad or good you have to be
Is there degrees of badness or goodness.

Is there a diagram I can use

banivani · 04/06/2019 15:21

It's really really good. Thank you Barracker!