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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GCSE Biology

152 replies

InsulatedCup · 02/06/2019 08:44

Article in Sunday Times here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scientists-fail-edexcel-exam-board-for-confusing-sex-and-gender-in-its-gcse-exam-28hxv9c9d?shareToken=2c8bcb2fd43e84abdcb0c7913b598273

Apparently "gender" can be inherited - using the word sex would mean children wouldn't understand.
We are really going to work hard to dig ourselves out of this hole. Well gone to Fair Play fro Women to getting it in the news.

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 09:47

There is only one pair of sex chromosomes. In this example, they are X and Y. Bottom right.

DCIRozHuntley · 02/06/2019 09:49

Thank you Madonna! I was being thick Grin

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 09:49

I just typed "gender enzyme" into Google scholar (to get science not social science). Oodles of papers with gender used to mean sex. Loads of them. Recent and decades old. It's not a new thing.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 02/06/2019 09:49

The 23rd pair of chromosome is labelled as XY, DCI. It looks like an X and Y chromosome.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 09:50

So current scientists are doing it, not just future ones.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/06/2019 09:52

Gender used to be the more ‘genteel’ way if (not) saying ‘sex’. We all know what it meant. Remember the old 2 Ronnie's sketch where they changed all the place names with the word ‘sex’ in them to ‘thingy’ (MiddleThingy)?

Now however ‘gender’ has become a different, loaded word.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 02/06/2019 09:53

I'm sorry but being "worried" that the word sex could be confused with intercourse is bullshit. If the kids can't get that right or understand a biological term in a biological context (genetics) then they're going to fail any and all GCSEs. It's really insulting to young people to trot that out.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/06/2019 09:54

I’m just imagining some medical students with their ‘Mr Bones’ sticking a long wig on ‘him’ and pronouncing ‘him’ a ‘her’.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 09:58

I am well aware of the distinction, and how loaded the word is in some situations. I'm just pointing out that this is not new, and it is not uncommon usage in Science.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 02/06/2019 09:59

Exactly, Ineed. I can’t believe anyone in Edexcel would have let that be their defence. It’s key terminology and it’s the term used in their syllabus.

I genuinely don’t believe that they thought that either students wouldn’t understand it or teachers wouldn’t have taught it.

OldCrone · 02/06/2019 10:00

TheFallenMadonna
Can you post to a link to a scientific paper that uses gender in exactly the same context as in the exam paper?

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 10:05

Why does it need to be exactly the same context? I've said how you can easily find lots of papers that talk about gender when they mean sex. The good news is they refer to women and men with assumptions about Biology too.

donquixotedelamancha · 02/06/2019 10:09

Gender used to be the more ‘genteel’ way if (not) saying ‘sex’.

To much of the population it still is. I correct my students on these terms but most of them use the term gender as the default and the ones that know there is a difference usually have misconceptions to unpack.

There is nothing really wrong with this use (though I'd prefer more precise usage) in the same way as there is nothing really wrong with talking about weighing yourself on a bathroom scale even though it's mass not weight.

When I rule the world they will be called massing scales and using farenheight or inches will be punishable by death

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 10:17

This paper refers to both fetal sex and fetal gender in the introduction. E.g. "One of these covariables is gender. It has
been suggested that fetal sex influences the concentrations
of first-trimester maternal serum markers".

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 10:17

A gender sex mash up.

OldCrone · 02/06/2019 10:22

TheFallenMadonna
Here's the first page of the search you said you did (not sure why you chose the word 'enzyme')

First result: "The effects of gender, age, ethnicity, and liver cirrhosis on cytochrome P450 enzyme activity in human liver microsomes and inducibility in cultured human hepatocytes"
A Parkinson, DR Mudra, C Johnson, A Dwyer… - Toxicology and applied Pharmacology, 2004

For contrast, here are the results for the phrase 'sex chromosomes'

First result (out of 119,000): "Sex chromosomes and brain gender"
AP Arnold - Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 2004

And here are the results for the phrase "gender chromosomes".

There are only 119 results. Things like this:
"Changing sex: Transsexualism, technology, and the idea of gender"
BL Hausman - 1995 - books.google.com

"Gender: An ethnomethodological approach"
SJ Kessler, W McKenna - 1985 - books.google.com

Gender and sex are not used interchangeably in science.

Thingybob · 02/06/2019 10:26

Does anyone know how the prevalence of transgender people compares between developed English speaking countries and non English speaking countries?

I only ask as so much of the ideology appears dependent on the misuse and conflation between the words 'sex' and 'gender' for us native English speakers.

AlwaysComingHome · 02/06/2019 10:27

I don’t really care if there are some scientific papers that confuse the sex and gender, they’re still wrong.

And how can they refer to either the sex or gender of a foetus if sex or gender are ‘assigned’ at birth.

I don’t care if students find the distinction between sex and gender confusing. Exams are designed to weed out determine whether somebody knows something or they don’t. If you don’t understand the word sex you don’t deserve to pass. You are going to be a burden on whatever career you inflict yourself on.

placemats · 02/06/2019 10:28

So if you're non binary, gender free, trans and the consultant is telling you about your testicular cancer or cervical cancer, you are going to be confused?

Or the doctor is discussing that you are pregnant?

Or that the doctor is telling you to go to a clinic for sexual diseases that may or may not leave you sterile?

Ad infinitum

EndoplasmicReticulum · 02/06/2019 10:30

This is a new change for GCSE. Have been teaching biology for a long time, exam papers have not used gender in place of sex before. X and Y are described as sex chromosomes and we teach about sex linked genetic conditions and sex determination. I think this change makes the question less clear.

TheInebriati · 02/06/2019 10:35

Why does it need to be exactly the same context?
In the past when people used 'gender' as a replacement for 'sex', the meaning was still clear. In the context of this exam, it creates confusion as the meaning is altered.

The context has altered the meaning. If you are arguing that it is not a problem you need to provide an example that is analogous.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 10:36

I chose the word enzyme specifically to get to scientific papers which do not look at the connection between sex and gender, where clearly making the distinction is important, because one is referring to both. Where only biological sex is referenced, gender is often used instead. Perhaps that's more clear.

But yes, NASALT.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/06/2019 10:39

For clarity, if I were still teaching biology, my students would have rolled their eyes at this and told me about it afterwards. I do not use the terms interchangeably, and I don't use the word gender in biology at all. I use it in Psychology, where it belongs!

OldCrone · 02/06/2019 10:43

Where only biological sex is referenced, gender is often used instead.

No it's not. Look at the results I posted. "Gender chromosomes" is virtually non-existent in the literature, and where it does appear, it's in social science papers.

PerspicaciaTick · 02/06/2019 10:45

In this Brave New World where gender is literally anything you feel like (including, but not limited to, animal and fairy), it makes no sense at all for the exam board to expect students to make a direct link between physical biology and an individual's gender. Because never, in a million, billion years will any scientist look at a chromosome and be able to say "this individual felt like a woman on Tuesdays".

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