'Women can read maps — they just need Lego '

[ErrolTheDragon]

Report in The Times today on Gina Rippon speaking at the Hay Festival

Women can read maps — they just need Lego

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-says-women-can-t-read-maps-they-just-need-lego-kdlp5x2nw?shareToken=e523367a117a4ca5c3927f8270a4bbc1

I'm pleased to say that DD did indeed have a lot of Lego (and k'nex which imo is even better), and began with a megablocks self-build pink fairy castle.

Spatial. Bloody autocorrect.

Because men went out hunting and women stayed in the caves with the children, cooking and having wild berry mornings.

Because men went out hunting and women stayed in the caves with the children, cooking and having wild berry mornings.

Yeah, we definitely know for a fact how prehistoric people behaved.

I have not read the whole thread so apologies if this was mentioned.

The tendency or average difference between groups is often the small separation of wide distributions. There will be a substantial overlap and outliers in both directions. Just because the average height of women is less than that of men doesn't mean all women are shorter than all men.

It's worth noticing the difference and making sure that seats etc are designed for a sensible range of heights for 95% of people.

The socialisation thing is a bit different because I think the distributions get distorted. I have a very technical and spatial engineering job. I also like "girly" (ick) things, do lots of crafts. I'm good at Lego but no kind of tomboy.

OK now I read down to the overlapping bell curves bit already mentioned!

Why would evolution select for greater special awareness in men but not in women? Our ancestors swung through the same trees - one sex with children on their backs.

Swinging through the trees, that's going back a ways!

There are other species that have differences in these sorts of things, so I don't see it as impossible. But it might not to relate to the kind of selection you are thinking of, but traits aren't always about a survival advantage. It could be something less direct - maybe it really relates to females superior language skills, there is some kind of trade-off involved.

Just to compare, if you asked why evolution would select for women to be slower than men, since they also need to run away from tigers, you'd be right to think that being fast would be just as useful for women. But - women also have to have the physiology to have babies, so, they are slower. A trait that differs by sex, but not due to evolutionary pressures around speed.

There is evidence for a trade-off between linguistic and visuospatial skills. It’s not possible for a brain to be optimised for all cognitive functions at once.

Walk into any engineering department and you’ll find lots of people who are brilliant visuospatial thinkers yet struggle with language-based activities.

Einstein’s brain was preserved after his death and various investigations into the seat of his genius were undertaken. It was discovered that a part of his brain associated with mathematical and spatial reasoning ‘crowded out’ an area associated with verbal processing. The suggestion has been made by researchers that this explains his late development of speech and contributed to his scientific prowess, the former being a necessary forfeit for the latter.

Stephen Pinker on Einstein’s brain from a New York Times article.

I’m good at reading maps but normally do the rotation mentally. I played with Lego a lot as a child, definitely my favourite toy and my DC had buckets of it.

Interesting point about knitting being coding, I get that. I’ve never understood why Sewing isn’t regarded as an engineering skill either

Loved the title as it always fascinated me that me&DC so different-mad on lego since age5 &could tell me where car was parked&how to get back there(in a multi-storey in Melb)1st time around..at age 8 she assembled flat packs for me&by10 she was planning our routes for overseas trips on google maps with subways&allsorts..all things i loathe/hate with a passion&i find it a real source of pride that we never get lost&she has short-cuts figured out before us adults lol..just the exact opposite to me.I joke that i get lost leaving public loo's out&about..we're all wired differently!

we're all wired differently!

Which is a good thing. But the plasticity of the human brain means that while part of it may be inherent 'wiring', some will be 'programming'.

Sewing isn’t regarded as an engineering skill either
Until it's done by machine. The same old undervaluing of 'women's work' perhaps.
Humankind presumably wouldn't have got very far (literally) without clothes and bags.

I'm ok at maps. I'm brilliant at fixing mechanical things and doing physical logistical planning. The only reason I am not some kind of mechanic is because when I was a kid I was discouraged repeatedly from doing 'boy things' and the careers adviser, teachers and my parents all pressed me that I should maybe be a secretary or something more suitable for a girl. It's a sore point.

As is my patella when I kneel on Lego.

I've never regarded sewing as women's work. Tailoring is a traditionally male profession.

Wasn't the Queen a motor mechanic during the war?

She was a driver, wasn't she? Not really sure. But tbh, I'm quite certain that telling my parents the Queen was a mechanic would have elicited a "Well, you ain't the Queen, are you?"

What's interesting with DH and I is that he has excellent spatial awareness in his head, like many dyslexic people. Instinctive navigator etc. I can handle complex directions and concepts but I have to draw it, often he will be explaining some idea and I will be, stop, stop I need paper. I'm good at map reading but take tgd map away and I'm lost in two turns.
I'm sure this isn't gendered, but there are different ways of getting to the same place. As it were.

Both a mechanic and a driver - some pics here. I remember seeing one in some sort of annual I had a s a kid.

mashable.com/2015/04/22/queen-elizabeth-army/?europe=true

Funny how 'women cant...' was suspended in many fields during the world wars. Lots of women drivers, during a period with no signposts. Lots of women mechanics. Lots of women agricultural labourers.

And how when the wars are over the women are expected to meekly shuffle back to the domestic sphere and there is much surprise when we say "Er, no."

"And how when the wars are over the women are expected to meekly shuffle back to the domestic sphere and there is much surprise when we say "Er, no."

Look at it from the male point of view. Called up and dragged away from your job to fight fascism. Serious risk of death or horrible injuries. Survive if you are lucky and come home to find your job taken by somebody else.

"Er no!"

Look at it from the male point of view

Yeah, cos there's never enough of that.