Guardian: the rise of “social” surrogacy

[Haworthia]

Absolutely not surprised by this at all. Celebs have been blazing the trail for a long time.

US doctors are seeing an increase in patients avoiding pregnancy or time off work by paying someone else to carry their baby – with no medical need to do so

amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/having-a-child-doesnt-fit-womens-schedule-the-future-of-surrogacy

And as the range of fertility options open to clients has diversified, so have their requests. Now, a growing number of women are coming to Sahakian for “social” surrogacy: they want to have babies that are biologically their own, but don’t want to carry them. There is no medical reason for them to use a surrogate; they just choose not to be pregnant, so they conceive babies through IVF and then hire another woman to gestate and give birth to their baby. It is the ultimate in outsourced labour.

And to copy one segment of that link, an example of a clause written in a surrogacy contract:

If the surrogate is in her second or third trimester of pregnancy and in the event that medical life support equipment is required to preserve and maintain the life of the Surrogate and if requested by the Intended Parents, the Surrogate and her husband agree that the Surrogate’s life will be sustained with life support equipment for a period to achieve viability of the fetus taking into account the best interests and well-being of the fetus . . . The Intended Parents will make the decision with regard to how long the life support should be continued prior to the birth of the Child taking into account the obstetrician or perinatologist’s recommendation and the desires of the family of the Surrogate. The Surrogate’s husband, or her next of kin, is solely responsible for determining the time at which life support treatment will be discontinued following the birth of the Child.

Let’s be clear what this bit is saying: the intended parents get to keep the body of a woman warm and functional until a baby can be cut out of her safely, after which it’s not their problem any more.

Just sickening.

But if your living is your look, then it's has to be a factor in your decision making

So then why did KK have two (I think) children in the usual manner and then chose a surrogate for the third? If it's just about having children, she already had some, if it's about the body changes, she already went through that twice.
Why are the media so concerned about womens bodies looking perfect while pregnant. why wont the press leave these women alone to look fat after a birth, to look haggard after 3 months.
Why do all these women "bounce back" into shape and are lauded for doing so in 6 weeks? It's not a crime to have a mum tum, not be made up and perfectly dressed when the baby is small.

A baby is not a right. You dont get to have one just because you want one. Not everyone is cut out for parenthood and that's ok too.

Let’s be clear what this bit is saying: the intended parents get to keep the body of a woman warm and functional until a baby can be cut out of her safely, after which it’s not their problem any more.

And some people say "The Handmaid's Tale" is unbelievable....

Is it Handmaid’s Tale? I think it’s more like Never Let Me Go, but instead of someone being kept in hospital until all their organs have been harvested until they’re of no more use, it’s a baby instead.

Well, it just made me think of when June was pregnant in THT. Everyone was so concerned - relatively speaking - about her health, making sure she had good food and was spared any physical punishments. But of course it wasn't June they were concerned about, it was the baby she was carrying, the baby who was to be stolen from her the moment she had given birth. And once she had, no more concern for her health was shown. She was just a human incubator.

I’m really on the fence about my personal opinion on surrogacy. On one hand, it does seem wrong to pay or ask another woman to do a dangerous thing for your benefit.
On the other hand, I’m a huge fighter of a woman’s right to body autonomy, if a woman doesn’t want to carry her child and if another woman is happy to carry a baby for her, they are both consenting adults making a decision about their own bodies, who is anyone to tell them they can’t do that?

boobless you should read the thread on universal credit and what extreme poverty forces women to do (sell their bodies) and that might help you decide. We are seeing very poor women in developing countries being used as incubators and sometimes being left with the baby if it’s not perfect enough. I’m sure women are also suffering permanent damage to their health due to being surrogates. I can’t reconcile that renting your womb for 9 months is the same as having ‘body autonomy’

On the other hand, I’m a huge fighter of a woman’s right to body autonomy, if a woman doesn’t want to carry her child and if another woman is happy to carry a baby for her, they are both consenting adults making a decision about their own bodies, who is anyone to tell them they can’t do that
Pimp.

who is anyone to tell them they can’t do that?

The baby who is being created with the intention to separate it from its mother. Your scenario also doesn’t factor in the very crucial point being made that the two women aren’t usually equals, one has greater wealth and choice, one has to sell her body and risk her health. If it’s altruistic you can’t really stop them but it’s not something I encourage or agree with because of the separation of mother and child.

I'm sure there was a case that was publicised about a surrogate whose baby turned out to have a disablity and the 'buyers' decided they didn't want it - was it in SE Asia? and the buyers were Australian maybe?

It really is analogous to prostitution, only poor women will do it and yet the idea of 'bodily autonomy' is proposed as a feminist justification. Just because there might be a tiny percentage of women who engage in prostitution through choice and are undamaged by it (though I highly doubt that) doesn't mean we don't aim to legislate to protect the vast majority of women who ARE harmed by prostitution.
I get that in the UK we have altruistic surrogacy and I appreciate women are doing that with the best of intentions. But I worry about them and their babies...and their other children, too.

It really is analogous to prostitution

Yup.

Its proponents are pimps.

Lots of money to be made out of our unique production potential.

We produce the only asset they can't, of course.

Imagine if we said 'no'.

I'm sure there was a case that was publicised about a surrogate whose baby turned out to have a disablity and the 'buyers' decided they didn't want it - was it in SE Asia? and the buyers were Australian maybe?

Yes, IIRC the surrogate was Thai and the intended parents Australian. She gave birth to B/G twins and one had Downs. The parents refused to take the boy with Downs and left him with the surrogate. Then it transpired that the father was a second offender, I think?

DYAC - sex offender, not second offender FFS!

Yes, IIRC the surrogate was Thai and the intended parents Australian. She gave birth to B/G twins and one had Downs. The parents refused to take the boy with Downs and left him with the surrogate. Then it transpired that the father was a second offender, I think

not envy.

Bestial.

Both surrogacy and prostituion ought to be banned. The vast majority of women involved in it are exploided. The right of the "empowered" few should not trump the basic human rights of the many.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Thai_surrogacy_controversy

It gets worse. I had a feeling that the father was a child sex offender but didn’t want to say so without checking. But yes, he was convicted of molesting girls aged 7 and 10.

Wiki says this about Pipah, the child they took home with them:

It was ruled Pipah is not allowed to be alone with David Farnell and the agreement that she must be read a photobook with age appropriate language every three months for the foreseeable future that explains her father's offenses

Well, that’s not fucked up at all is it? What a totally normal and healthy way in which to grow up.