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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For viewers in Scotland: Scotland Tonight 23/05/19

16 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/05/2019 20:37

"In a #scotnight special we ask if laws should be changed to make it easier for trans people to legally change their sex. Could that threaten women's rights? @ FeministCurrent Editor Meghan Murphy , @ TENI_Tweets Sara Phillips & politicians @MaggieChapman & @ JoanMcAlpine debate #GRA"

I thought this might be of interest...

OP posts:
Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 23/05/2019 20:48

Thank you! Will make sure I stay up. Does anyone know why an Irish trans group is on? Surely STA should justify the huge amount of public money they get from Scottish government by turning up to defend their policy?

bettybeans · 23/05/2019 20:51

Guessing it might be to bring in the Irish experience of self-ID. I hope someone points out that their version has like a million exemptions written into it.

2rebecca · 23/05/2019 20:54

Excellent, see the "no debate" crew are having a hissy fit about women wanting to be heard rather than men speaking for them on Twitter

KarenTheCashRegister · 23/05/2019 20:54

Don’t get your hopes up. It’s the BBC after all.

S1naidSucks · 23/05/2019 20:55

Does anyone know why an Irish trans group is on?

So they can say that it hasn’t caused any problems whatsoever in Ireland, while not mentioning the fact that trans people that identify as women are not permitted in female jails or shelters and the amount of trans people identifying as females in Ireland is minute, compared to the uk and NI.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 23/05/2019 20:59

I suppose it might be that. To be honest, however, I rather cynically assumed that STA have thrown their usual "no debate", aka run & hide from questions, routine. I think it's disgraceful that the people pushing for the removal of sex based rights are too craven and cowardly to face women and tell them to their faces why they don't think they deserve safety or privacy.

BlackForestCake · 23/05/2019 22:49

Maggie Chapman there refusing to answer whether she believes women have penises. I bet she didn't bring that one up canvassing on the doorstep.

EachDubh · 23/05/2019 23:02

Self i. D in Ireland has enhanced women's rights because it has included trans women as well.

How does this in any way enhance woman's rights?

EachDubh · 23/05/2019 23:05

Maggie Chapman, people can change sex, sex is binary.

Oh dear 🤯😵

failingatlife · 24/05/2019 00:01

Maggie Chapman embarrassed herself. Sex is not binary 🙄 OK then! can't see the Scottish public agreeing with that one.

bettybeans · 24/05/2019 00:13

I'm glad they all went on to discuss this but for me it served as a reminder that this subject really can't be covered in any meaningful way in just 20 mins or whatever the segment length was.

Frustrating. Despite JM and MM doing brilliantly, I'm not sure what anyone looking in would really have taken from any of that.

This needs a little work, I think. We need some integrated media PR pros identifying the key messages and the most effective way of delivering them within short spaces of time. Not spin (for any crackpots looking in) but carefully designed comms. I wonder if any of the groups have access to that type of resource.

OldCrone · 24/05/2019 00:17

You can watch it here. You don't need to be in Scotland but you do need to make an account.

player.stv.tv/episode/3sf9/scotland-tonight/

BlackForestCake · 24/05/2019 01:02

I was just thinking that it's really weird that parties shy away from and abandon unpopular policies, such as free immigration or unilateral nuclear disarmament, because they are hard to defend, but will happily go on television and deny that there are two human sexes.

Cuntysnark · 24/05/2019 08:07

Joan & Meghan were both brilliant. How Meghan didn’t throw the journalists questions right back at her is beyond me.
I’m sending Joan another card to thank her. I’d love to send Meghan one too but no idea how, or, indeed, how long she’s in the UK.

CharlieParley · 24/05/2019 09:32

Does anyone know why an Irish trans group is on?

Because every single Scottish Trans group refused to come on. They still think No Debate is how they will win this.

And it was a real shame that the presenter failed to inform the viewers that Ireland had no legal recognition for trans people when self-id was introduced (which is why it made such a huge difference to them) AND that sitting alongside self-id Ireland has a large number of easy-to-use excemptions, exceptions and statutes that in practice mean they do not have self-id in the UK sense.

The latter ensure that single-sex provisions remain segregated by biological sex, including specifically even where people may just feel embarrassed for privacy reasons and they allow any provider for instance to simply exclude a person if they just think they pose a risk of disorderly conduct such as by abusing the service or becoming aggressive or abusive.

Plus all kinds of things are specifically allowed to be single-sex for all kinds of reasons. And there is the possibility of gate keeping by the Irish government built into the law.

Irish self-id is not what is proposed in the UK and it is disingenuous if not to say gaslighting to equate the two.

So whoever that male was, please note what was not said - no fond reminiscences of using all kinds of single-sex spaces, not even refuges, just a statement that males who identify as trans need them too for instance. It was for all intents a magnificent performance in avoiding any and all mention of the glaring differences between our two self-id systems. Not even the slightest hint escaped during that lengthy interview.

Helped in no small measure by the fact that like most of us, the presenter didn't know that the Irish system is so very different from the one proposed here or the one in use in Canada.

MM was great. Refreshing to see someone just state out loud what needs to be said. Joan was fab, loved the direct challenge re women having penises. The other contributors, like Susan and Lucy made great points, too.

And I don't know what was up with that Green Party person. Quite aside from a less than assured performance full of tired tropes and bonkers claims that noone outside of Wokistan believes, how dare she resurrect the lesbophobic spectre of the predatory lesbian? How fucking dare she!

I recently spoke to a wonderful young woman whose time at high school was hell because that accusation was used to bully her relentlessly and to ostracise her from her peers.

It is beyond the pale for a so-called LGBT ally to bring up such a homophobic talking point in defence of letting males into refuges for females.

2rebecca · 24/05/2019 09:34

Disappointed but not surprised at Maggie Chapman's "sex is not binary". This is very obviously not true. I'm a GP with over 7000 patients at our practice. We have under 10 patients with intersex disorders, the rest very clearly fit in to male or female sex categories. The idea that there are loads of people wandering around who are born with both male and female gonads and that there are huge numbers of babies born who aren't obviously male or female at birth is just silly and wrong.

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