Risk assessments regarding clothing shop changing rooms

[finnmcool]

I'm bloody frustrated! I've phoned New Look, Topshop, John Lewis and Marks and Spencer asking for information about what risk assessments they did when they decided to allow males who self id as females into the changing rooms.

Not one of them could give me an answer, they're all getting back to me.
Marks and Spencer have to be highlighted for their aggressive stance though.
I was talked over, interrupted and told they aren't changing their policy. I was told that I can't even put a freedom of information request in, because their policy 'comes under business model'
This was a woman in the management team
.
GLL, haven't got back to me yet, regarding their gym/swim changing room policy.
How is it not a breach of law to allow males into women's spaces without consent and risk assessing?
Sorry, I'm a lurker who occasionally comments, but I quietly fight our battles in my area.
Thank you if you've read my rant.

The protective measure is using the EA2010 correctly is it not? Sex and gender reassignment are protected. A post op MTF transexual could use a female changing room but a fetishist like Boldemort could not.

@buzz absolute rubbish. Show me the peer reviewed evidence that our entire species has an inborn sex detector that has a ‘99.9%’ accuracy

I’ll say it again, I actually agree with you but this flippant approach does not help the cause at all

But most changing rooms have lockable doors rather than curtains now? What's the fuss? Why is it different to family changing at the swimming pool?

Show me the peer reviewed evidence that our entire species has an inborn sex detector that has a ‘99.9%’ accuracy

Er ... how on earth do you think humanity reproduces our species, sir, if humans are unable to detect who is female or who is male?

But most changing rooms have lockable doors rather than curtains now? What's the fuss? Why is it different to family changing at the swimming pool? You might want to look at the new "It never happens thread...."

@dna my social media feed is well populated with examples of tw and tm due to many of the groups I'm in/people I follow.

I don't remember the last time I scrolled without reading and mis-sexed one of them.

Must just be lucky I guess?
Just because I don't have an on-demand reference from Nature to prove that humans can tell, doesn't make it less true. We live it every day.

It's fairly simple. It's been working fine for decades.

State clearly that women's provision is single sex provision. In line with the EA. Provide unisex/gender free/whatever you want to name it facilities for trans people uncomfortable changing with their own sex. And then - since you're saying in every post you fully expect TW to enter these spaces no matter what is done to try to protect women, which actually says a whole lot about what is really going on there and exactly why those protections are needed - women and staff challenge and if necessary call security in cases where a problem arises. And since that problem will involve someone obviously male being there, or male anatomy being flashed, it will be inappropriate behaviour and lack of respect for others that will cause the challenge.

The whole they're coming in whatever you do, you can't stop them without genital checks (ffs), so just give up and stop using the space - no. This is about finding solutions that work for everyone, not just transwomen. This is also not about women rolling over and giving up their spaces and rights for men who happen to want them.

DNA, you alert my spidey senses!

And, oddly enough, males can be detected without even seeing them. Social media is highly revelatory! Must be something to do with all that male social conditioning.

Should have added: it is women's right to challenge, and have those challenges supported by staff, and the clear public knowledge of where the boundaries are and that inappropriate behaviour is challenged that maintains all single sex spaces and always has done. That's all that is needed in most cases.

Jacky Sorry I was thought a MTF transexual could use and had been using female changing rooms?Can someone advise? Have I got that wrong?
(I don't mean a transwoman or non binary male or demi boi or any of the other mermaid genders)

Sorry I was thought a MTF transexual could use and had been using female changing rooms

That was a privilege allowed by women being "nice", and not a right.

I actually agree with you but this flippant approach does not help the cause at all

What, and your post suggesting cameras and guards in every changing room helps the cause? And what methods do those cameras and guards use to assess customers then that’s so different and more advanced?

*Show me the peer reviewed evidence that our entire species has an inborn sex detector that has a ‘99.9%’ accuracy

• Erm... OK. But I warn you, the list os long and goes back centuries! And it was even included in an A level Psychology module for years, until they got all po-faced and made it hideously boring!

Look at gait analysis, facial recognition software, the software they use for reconstructing faces from skulls.

Then the whole idea about sexual imprinting, phenotypes, the psychology of sexual atraction, Darwin, the Adaptationist theory, even sociosexuality in times of over population.

ALL of them rely on the human beings ability to recognise, describe and transcribe maleness, femaleness, attractiveness etc.

All animals do it (there's even more gold standard science on animal sexual behaviour) humans are no different.

Google Scholar might be a good place for you to start.

You can't do an FOI request on them because they are not a public body.

Show me the peer reviewed evidence that our entire species has an inborn sex detector that has a ‘99.9%’ accuracy

Not 100%. The explosion in global population would suggest we’re improving though.

The explosion in global population would suggest we’re improving though.

Howling with laughter! Thank you, I needed that laugh!

'But most changing rooms have lockable doors rather than curtains now'

No they don't!!!

Thank you for everybody who has had input on this thread.
I am feeling out of my depth regarding how articulate and clued up you all are.
I feel in the sense of fairness, I should explain what viewpoint I'm coming from.
I have PTSD from extreme, male, physical, psychological and sexual violence against me. It took me a long time to feel safe enough to leave my home again.
I was a totally alone single mother of a daughter who is now 27.
I was a youth worker who set up young women's self esteem groups.
I now work with ex offenders and I predominantly work with women.
I have seen, and watched what the dismantling of women's safe spaces is doing to my clients, my daughter's friends and I see how I would have taken a lot longer to recover.
I would also be completely terrified if I had a male in close proximity to me.

To the pps who are saying that I shouldn't expect access to a risk assessment, I get what you're saying, but I don't understand why women shouldn't have access to that information.

And my paragraphs disappeared! Sorry.

finnmcool.

It doesn’t seem to me you’re out of your depth at all. Applause and thank you for all you’re doing for girls and women.

May I reinforce what BickerinBrattle says here.

Please keep doing what you do Finn

Oh finn I’m sorry to hear what you’ve endured. I’m buoyed by your commitment to supporting women and girls. People like you restore my faith in humanity.

Keep on keeping on!