Coming out as GC to friends and family - best way

[Yeahnahyeah]

I got burnt with my sister , whose DD (on the autism spectrum, MH issues, eating disorder, oh and non binary/maybe trans).
It got ugly. In a dignified kind of way. Polite. Scathing. Poles apart.
So how the fuck do I voice my concerns to others without being seen as a bigoted hateful person?
I'm feeling despondent.

got burnt with my sister , whose DD (on the autism spectrum, MH issues, eating disorder, oh and non binary/maybe trans).
It got ugly. In a dignified kind of way. Polite. Scathing. Poles apart.
So how the fuck do I voice my concerns to others without being seen as a bigoted hateful person?
I'm feeling despondent.

In your shoes I'd focus on supporting your niece with regards to her MH and eating disorder. With regards to feeling non-binary, I would offer sympathy about gender stereotypes and that general feeling of feeling different to your peers but not label it as non-binary etc because that feeling can happen to NT people too.

With regards to your sis, I'd sympathise with stuff like how hard it is to get professional help, how much she may worry and stress about her dd etc.

It's easier to be GC with relative strangers but personally I'm a wuss so in real life I tailor how GC I am according to the audience. If my kids secondary school introduced unisex loos for instance I wouldn't talk about assault but would talk about the feeling awkward using sanitary towels, teasing by boys when girls are on their period etc

Honestly I think focusing on facts is the best way to go. Facts can be twisted to suit an argument but a 4000% increase in ftm teenagers and 60 out of 126 sex offenders identifying as trans (as a minimum it could be more) prove how things are going in one direction. You can reference the California law changing from 13 to 8 year olds receiving hormone treatment to show how it's not just the UK and the Samaritans statement on the (previously debunked) suicide stats that Mermaids and others apply for their argument.

The big one I think is the 80% rate of desisters with a watch and wait approach.

Of course they are 'facts' on the opposing side but with research you can nearly always undermine them. Follow the money!

How you approach it with family and friends is very personal, I find it hard to remain calm and not get worked up, so if you manage a reasoned argument you're doing better than me!

It's hard. As PP said I tailor the points to the audience. Working women tend not to be impressed by Pips Bunce (married father who goes to work as male or female depending on how he feels). Nurses are not impressed by the story of the woman who was presented with a person with a beard for their smear without asking if they minded (patient informed consent issue).

Use factual language such as double mastectomy not 'top surgery'.

If I remember correctly @Italiangreyhound has been through something similar with a family member and might be able to offer advice. I personally think a softly softly approach is best, try not to talk with high emotion, remember how scared and confused your sister must be, how stressed the whole family must be, and how bombarded and brainwashed by pro trans media they've probably been. You can't help them if they cut your out of their lives.

I also agree with using language which doesn't obscure reality. So whilst you might want to use male pronouns with your niece to make things less hostile, in private with your sister I'd say "women who identify as trans" rather than "trans men", "mastectomy" rather than "top surgery" etc. Watching the rape crisis centres discussion yesterday really made me realise how damaging and distorting that kind of obfuscating language is (which, of course, is the goal of forcing everyone to use it).

No suggestions but hugs

You can't control other people's responses. You can only be true to yourself. Be reasonable, calm and keep well referenced.

As with issues about Brexit - which get very heated - steer clear of unnecessary provocation, but when a situation or topic arises spontaneously be honest about your view.

Hi, lurker here, just wanting to correct this stat from a pp:

and 60 out of 126 sex offenders identifying as trans

I think the correct stat is that, out of 126 trans prisoners identified within the prison system, 60 were sex offenders - so almost 50%. Way higher than the % of sex offenders within the general prison population.

(It jumped out at me as I'm assuming there are more than 126 sex offenders in prison, but could be wrong!)

Sorry @IAmNotASubCategoryOfWoman you're right, I got that the wrong way round - important to get it right so thanks for correcting that!

No worries! I'd have added the source too but I can't remember.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving "If I remember correctly Italiangreyhound has been through something similar with a family member and might be able to offer advice."

Yes, we do have a trans identifying young person in the family.

As far as advice goes I was full of it years ago! As time has gone on I am less inclined to offer advice. Or at least more likely to say it is confusing and complex and I have fewer and fewer easy answers.

I do agree with pikapikachu "In your shoes I'd focus on supporting your niece with regards to her MH and eating disorder."

and also,

"With regards to your sis, I'd sympathise with stuff like how hard it is to get professional help, how much she may worry and stress about her dd etc."

IMHO it is far more important to support your sister OP and your niece rather than feeling the need to provide facts or figures, or challenge facts or figures or whatever.

This is so hard. I have 2 good friends who I have simply not raised the issue with as I think they are not GC. I risked it with a few others, and was SO relieved that they were also critical, though not following things in quite the same way, nor quite so outraged about it as me. I tend to just drop a few choice facts in but try not to rant. Which is hard.
My husband spoke to an old (Male) friend the other day. His view was that we are just “too old” to understand it. Young people don’t have a problem with it. “He wouldn’t be quite so blasé “ I commented “if he had daughters not sons!”

Yeahnahyeah IMHO their are lots of different issues, not just young people/children (although for me this is probably the biggest issue) but for me I prefer not to mix up the various issues. Rather to stick with the thing being discussed.

In terms of suicide stats I think the issue here is that, although it is probably true that some suicide stats are inflated in some areas, any parent who is worried about their child taking their own life won't be reassured necessarily.

Suicide isn't mentioned in the post at all but does go with mental health issues sometimes of course.

We may want to correct misconceptions or whatever, the reality is we do not know which young person may or may not hurt themselves intentionally or unintentionally.

Fortunately, in the UK (where I am) we cannot access cross sex hormones before 16 very easily, if at all, (as far as I can see) and we cannot access surgery for children (as far as I know).

I think in the beginning (when the child asked us to use male name etc) I thought if I go along with the 'new' name and pronouns I will make it worse. I will make it real. I will make it less likely to stop/end.

After a lot of heartache on all sides I found that rather than going away the 'issue' became more pressing. I also realized that if the child ever had doubts about their new identity then I would be the last person they would talk to!

I started to use the new name, the pronouns and generally accepted that this was the situation with the child. Amazingly I felt a lot more peaceful about it. The child seemed happier (although they have a lot of other mental health issues) and it did feel the right thing to do.

Of course the future is an open book, and maybe this child will change their views/identify or whatever, that will be their choice.

Good luck OP, make up with your sis, she needs you.

I’ve found a second glass of wine to be a remarkably effective way of taking the decision out of my hands...

Initial conversations with my sister went v badly too.

But, she's an avid reader capable of critical thought so I sent her lots of links to useful websites. Especially stuff by Jonny Best and Kathleen Stock. Wierdly also Susie Greene's TED talk.

For months we had to agree to drop the subject every time we spoke and then one day she was gender critical (and maintains she always was)

That's why I thought of you Italiangreyhound because I remembered you saying you'd come out quite strong against affirmation originally but then decided that wasn't the best strategy. IMO it's best to separate the politics from the personal. So I think we should all campaign our asses off to put talking therapies which actually look for the root of the dysphoria rather than just affirm it back on the table. And we absolutely need to stop Gillick competencies getting anywhere near this - I think 16 is too young for CSH personally, but if Gillick competencies get introduced it'll be an utter disaster. But when it comes to family, friends, and vulnerable children I agree that it should be about support, empathy, and gently keeping as many doors open as possible, rather than turning a traumatic event into a political battle ground. Also this

the reality is we do not know which young person may or may not hurt themselves intentionally or unintentionally.

is very good advice. Minimising and ignoring risk on our end is as bad as exaggerating and weaponizing risk on their's. There's a time and a place for being strongly openly gender critical, but I don't think this is it OP

No-one in my extended family believes TWAW so it wasn't hard for me, plus I never pretended that I thought that people either could change sex or that pretending to do so was a good idea.

I'm always look for the middle ground. I don't believe people can change sex but I also know that a very unhappy child/young person needs empathy and sympathy etc.