Summer work wear

[rabbitwoman]

Whenever the weather turns warmer, men in the office complain that they have to still wear ties and suits whereas women have the option of cooler blouses, skirts, short sleeves etc.....

My response is that they can wear blouses and dresses too if they like. Within the current political climate, i assume that if a man could turn up wearing cooler clothes, dresses, skirts etc as long as they stick to the dress code? Why not?

It's not about being trans, its about being to wear whatever they are comfortable in in hot weather? Isn't there quite a large gap in the market, to design and produce a line of clothes that are cooler in hot weather for men? Whilst still being professional?

If a man did turn up to work dressed for the cooler weather in a skirt, what exactly could the management do about it?

Main kick off in my office is blokes who want to wear shorts and aren't allowed to.

Tailored shorts to be fair but still, one has to maintain certain standards donchernow (shoots cuffs).

...If a man did turn up to work dressed for the cooler weather in a skirt..

Depends what you mean by "man" really.

Do you mean an "xy" type of person (with a willy)?

A man, with a willy, who happily identifies as a man, but wants more air circulating in warmer weather!

Does the organisation’s dress code actually require suits for men, or by “have to” do they mean “feel social pressure to”.

My employer’s dress code allows shorts and short sleeves for men. Assume skirts or dresses would be fine too.

Weren’t there some builders in the press who went to work in skirts and dresses to make a point about their company’s dress code?

Because I assume there would be no issues with a transwoman wearing dresses and skirts to work.

I just feel that men use it as a bit of a stick to beat us with - yes, we get paid less, take on more childcare therefore compromise our carers etc but we get to wear more comfortable clothes in warm weather! So it's even!

I agree. It's deeply weird when you think about it that there's no socially acceptable line of clothes for British men that are essentially loose wraps of fabric - no kilts, no robes etc. I wonder if that'll change over the years as it gets hotter?

Swedish Train Drivers did this one year, Herero men turning up in the work skirts because it was so hot. It was all over the news and their employer quickly allowed smart shorts

I wonder if that'll change over the years as it gets hotter?
Doubt it. Men don't really want to wear skirts, if they did a 'man skirt ' would have been designed and marketed by now. They're usually cool enough in a pair of shorts and a teeshirt or similar.

I always think the ladies are in thier "own clothes" having a mufti day but the men are in uniform.

Men don't really want to wear skirts,

'Skirts' or 'dresses' are perfectly normal in other cultures and at other periods in history.

I reckon it's rather a shame that cultural norms, and/or notions of 'cultural appropriation' or whatever seem to inhibit is from adopting practical or beautiful clothes from elsewhere or in this case, the opposite sex. (Personally I'd really like to try salwar Kameez ... they look so comfortable and some are gorgeous but for no rational reason I don't)

Princess Diana looked amazing in salwar kameez. This is Naomi Watts and is nice too.

I know what you mean however about appropriation.

Men don't really want to wear skirts

Kilts?

Part of the reason we are in this gender ID mess is that society (and I'm looking at the XYs here) won't broaden their bandwidth of male acceptance.

If people could wear what they wanted without regressive stereotypes or fear of being abused by 'lad culture' then things would be better?

I bet Pip Bunce's don't restrict what Pip wears and if every man said they ID as female then what could employers say? It's just devastating for females that in order to wear a dress a man has to claim he's a woman.

Part of the reason we are in this gender ID mess is that society (and I'm looking at the XYs here) won't broaden their bandwidth of male acceptance

You think women aren't as constrained by the same conventions? I'm pretty sure the women in my office would be just as unenthusiastic about a man wearing a dress.

Men don't really want to wear skirts
Kilts?

The vast majority of men only wear kilts on special occasions and rugby matches. I did know one very eccentric senior partner who occasionally wore a kilt to the office.
Kilts are hardly warm weather clothing.

Theres so many choices of womens office wear for all seasons.
The men I know wouldn't choose to wear a dress, blouse or skirt...I think that's a bit silly tbh. I remember having a conversation with my brother and his friend saying they think it's double standard. If a guy wears shorts or short sleeve top etc it's deemed unprofessional, yet a woman can go in in a short skirt and flimsy top.

Men don't really want to wear skirts

Kilts? this is silly too. Kilts are not comfortable office wear

Men need to make a fuss if unhappy with their clothing options

the italian men in my office wear short suits on hot days

The days of mandatory ties have been well and truly over for years.

Lightweight trousers are a thing. Avoids nasty thigh rub.

But yes, as someone said upthread I'm sure men can use their power to manage their own dress code without being spiteful and resentful of women. And the aircon is usually on in the summer, if you want it cooler buy a fan.

Shorts would not be acceptable office wear in my office but there are loads of tailored linen and cotton suits available, in all price ranges. My husband has tailored summer suits but very few men seem to take the option up.

In my own office one man who does is very conservative, (in all senses) ex- army, early 60s and always immaculately dressed. Clearly he has the wit to realise a smart summer suit looks infinitely preferable to a sweatig in a rumpled wool suit.

Have always had men going on about this in my office jobs.

Men :snoffair, women can wear cooler clothes sandals etc
Me : there's nothing stopping you wearing more comfy clothes! You can wear shorts, sandals. Short slweve shirts. I mean hell you could even wear skirts if you really wanted to!
Men (blanching) : no no no we couldn't possibly
Me : why not?
Men : because its not done...

They don't want to wear different clothes. If they did they would. My workplaces are v male dominated they make the rules!
What they actually want is :

1. Opportunity to whine
2. Opportunity to feel hard done by in relation to women, not feel guilty about sexism in workplace, women have it better!
3. Some would like women clothes rules changed out of sour grapes like the ones who get women only swimming sessions shit down

Other points. Invisible to them is :

1. Effort and expense of not being able to wear same clothes to work every day. Not having a uniform means trickier decisions, judging what is appropriate for what, looking 'nice' but not too nice etc
2. The like looking at the more attractive women when they are done up, at least they have everywhere I've worked

I spent five years in the military.
Summer uniform for men, light weight cotton trousers or shorts and shirts. Summer uniform for women, same as winter, serge skirt and tights.

I wore the mens uniform.

If a guy wears shorts or short sleeve top etc it's deemed unprofessional, yet a woman can go in in a short skirt and flimsy top.

Because our culture's expectations of smart, formal wear are different for men and women.

Men are expected to cover their bodies for professional appearance - displaying male flesh is considered very casual. Women OTOH are expected to display their bodies to some degree for professional appearance - lower legs and ankles should be visible, as should the shape of her body.

Walk shorts - a sensible summer fashion for men in NZ which went out of favour sometime in the 1980s. My husband wore his walk shorts whilst at Manchester University in the summer of 1974. Eyebrows were raised, but he was comfortable which was all that mattered.

The short doco on the decline of the walk short on the Wiki page link will bring back many memories for the Kiwi Mumsnetters here I am sure!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walk_shorts