Encouraging Women in STEM.

[DpWm]

The institute for Apprenticeships seems to have developed a novel way to encourage female applications for apprenticeships in STEM careers, which sits around a woeful 9%, and apparently works, seeing a rise of about 40% female applicants when tested.

feweek.co.uk/2019/05/10/ifa-to-trial-gender-neutral-language-in-bid-to-boost-female-stem-applicants/

It's really interesting and quite depressing, if this really works, to see how gendered language works to hold women back. It reveals how extremely sexist the world is, how women and men are shaped to view themselves.

From link
The advert that increased female applications by 40 per cent referred to by Morfee, and seen by FE Week, lists a number of “feminine and neutral” words that should be used in job adverts, which include: understand, kind, honest, dependable, co-operative and support

It also lists “masculine” words that should be avoided, such as: active, decisive, leader, ambition, challenge, objective, competitiveness, independence, opinion, confident and intellectual.

So women are put off from applying for jobs that ask for applicants who are "ambitious" and "intellectual" and prefer jobs that ask for those who are "kind" and "supportive".

I understand why they have taken this approach, and great if it helps women into stem, but avoiding the words of traits that actually help people get ahead in their career is surely just a bit of a blunt tool, and pretty sexist.
So much work needs to be done for women to see they can have all the traits usually associated with masculinity, why should "ambition" be reserved for men?

feweek.co.uk/2019/05/10/ifa-to-trial-gender-neutral-language-in-bid-to-boost-female-stem-applicants/

There was a push a few years ago in academia to change the language of job applications for senior roles, because the language was indeed putting off applicants. I don’t know whether it had an impact.

As always, I don’t believe the problem is with women in STEM. It’s the misogynist arsehole they encounter when they get there.

Changing language has been done in my tech company to good effect.

But on the point of should women be taught they can have masculine traits...well yes on one hand we should not be teaching that some traits are unsuitable in women but

WHY are masculine characteriscs considered good? Is it really helpful to have a team full of highly ambitious people? Our company’s wants to benefit from diversity. If you get more women by changing women’s behaviour and selecting women who act like men then you have reduced diversity

Is it really helpful to have a team full of highly ambitious people?

Well, surely yes, because these people will want to do the best job they can and push themselves to become more competent.

Haa ok I just wrote that and I can already think of many "ambitious" people who are incompetent and lazy but worked their way to the top god knows how. By being dodgy and unscrupulous.
So you may have a point.

My idea of ambition is the drive to do your best. Which is a good thing for everyone.

I would call that a strong work ethic. I read ambition as pole climbing. I must stop assuming things!

I've always worked in STEM professions and am comfortable using the words on either list. Intellectual to a certain extent is needed in most/all stem jobs and to be adaptable/flexible as things change constantly - I like the constant change as I find it challenging.

Yes there are plenty of dick heads in these fields but aren't they everywhere?

I think the problem starts with very young children sadly and by secondary school far less girls STEM subjects 😕

I had a conversation recently that I've had quite a few times before. I'm British and my dh Polish - a bit of an anomaly as there are quite a few British men with Polish wives but rare our way round. I know from my female friends many wanted men with decent jobs. Maybe we need to teach girls that it's best to get a decent job yourself and then marry for love and kindness?

By apprenticeship time, it's already too late to be worry about semantics! Girls' interest is lost by the age of 8....its also very connected to the encouragement of their mum ( teachers, dad etc have a lot less impact) and what she does for a living. Have a look at the Institute of Physics Gender Balance project. The findings there are quite sad. It's also not an issue in other countries to the same extent; nobody knows why!

NotanotherJaffaCake you nailed it. The problem is not the language. Just like calling a bepenised person a woman does not make him one, tinkering with the language will change nothing about a Boss who will consider a new Baby a reason for a pay raise, and cutting slack for the new Dad, and a reason for demotion and questioning commitment for the new Mum.

Yes, removing gendered language works. Read iris bohnet's book, "what works" - it's about using behavioural design to improve diversity. Loads of examples from real life as well as experimental evidence.

Also, if you are recruiting or know someone recruiting for a job, try the Applied platform (beapplied.com). It enables recruitment blind of gender, ethnicity etc. Sounds unnecessary until you see the stats on how identical CVs with differently gendered names on have very very different outcomes. I'm considering changing my name to John.

I think it's lost much earlier, if you talk to girls age 8 or so and they will say they want to be a nurse, if you suggest a doctor they will look surprised as if a woman can't be a doctor. If you ask them to draw an engineer you'll maybe get one female engineer. It's really depressing.

Ambition to me implies individualism sometimes at the expense of colleagues. It would benefit men and women to have workplaces where people at the top listen to others and make useful improvements rather than driving through pointless policies

It’s changing for doctors. More new doctors are female

Deepwatersolo
NotanotherJaffaCake
Yeah so true. The testing shows an increase of 40% in female applicants but no info on how many females actually gain the apprenticeships over male applicants.

The idea of sex/ethnicity blind applications is a great one. But you can't be sex/race/ethnicity blind when it gets to interview stage.

And so true, that by the age women are applying for apprenticeships socialisation has already set in deeply, higher education is woefully lacking in female STEM graduates (apart from medicine. Is that stem?).

I would say medicine is science so yes STEM. Of the sciences I think biology has generally aleays attracted more girls than chem/physics.

Mind you having said that about the blind application process, if say all application forms were automatically sorted alphabetically and given a number, then interview candidates selected without their name or other indicators being revealed, the process could be more likely to end up with 100% all women interviewees, seeing as women are more likely to apply only if they meet all the criteria while men chance it more.

Genderfree yes I suppose medicine is STEM.
It's quite a different environment though because of the nature of intimate contact often involved, and patience requiring women/male only health care providers, so women are actually in demand. Unlike engineering or computing.

Lol patience.
Patients obv.

Medicine requires attributes off both lists as it combines science with a need for people skills.

I agree on women applicants more likely to get through blind, but that's not a bad thing.

The advert that increased female applications by 40 per cent referred to by Morfee, and seen by FE Week, lists a number of “feminine and neutral” words that should be used in job adverts, which include: understand, kind, honest, dependable, co-operative and support

It also lists “masculine” words that should be avoided, such as: active, decisive, leader, ambition, challenge, objective, competitiveness, independence, opinion, confident and intellectual

I don't think "kind" should feature in any job advert unless there is a very, very specific job requirement for enhanced empathy. That would put me off applying; as would "understand" unless qualified in some way.

"Honest" and "dependable" seem a bit redundant- aren't they pretty much essential for any job?

As for the supposedly masculine words - apart from opinion they seem pretty standard for job specs in my profession, which currently, like medicine has around 60 % female entry.

Veterinary medicine has, I believe over 80% female undergraduates.

yes I suppose medicine is STEM

Of course it is STEM.Or are you now going to posit that it's the wrong sort of STEM? I've seen that argument run on here.

Edinburgh entry for medicine and veterinary medicine is , for Scottish Highers, A passes in Chemistry and two of Biology, Mathematics or Physics.

I sometimes wonder if the reason medicine is becoming more female is all the negative publicity about the NHS and doctors’ work-life balance. It makes me wonder if its gradually being seen as ‘shitwork’ and a less desirable career, so the shift is about males opting out at medical school application stage. For women, the ‘shitwork’ aspect is balanced by the NHS’ flexibility as an employer and the scope to work part-time.

By all of this, I don’t mean to disparage the profession or the work doctors do at all, just that the work is now seen as harder and less desirable.

Of course it is STEM.Or are you now going to posit that it's the wrong sort of STEM? I've seen that argument run on here

Lol no... I just never know what's encapsulated into STEM and what isn't exactly.

Medicine does seem very female friendly which is good. As others have pointed out it requires more of the "softer skills" such as sensitivity and empathy. Which imo should be equally male/female skills.

I don't think "kind" should feature in any job advert unless there is a very, very specific job requirement for enhanced empathy

Yes I completely agree which is why I am uncomfortable with this approach.
Females are disproportionately expected to be "kind" which we all know basically translates to, put up with shit you don't like, do other people's shitwork for them and get no thanks for it.
That's not a healthy work ethic for the worker in question.
Kindness is a basic trait that should be found in all people not only will women.

boatyard
And as you go higher up the chain, management, consultancy, it's still predominantly male.
The footwork is more equal.

Where did you get the idea that girls think that women can’t be doctors? Engineer picture drawing, I can get that as no one is really sure what an engineer looks like.

All I can say is we need to tell our daughters that women can be anything. If we find concrete examples, that’s great, but I’m not sure its necessary.

Explain to them that it will not be an easy task at times, but very little that is worthwhile is.