Doula Trainees repond to being kicked out for not being inclusive

[theOtherPamAyres]

This is a video of a group of young women in Colorado USA, outside the venue of a Doula training course.

They are appalled, angry and are making a stand, knowing that the training provider will view the video on Youtube. They've been kicked off a course because they refused to use the term "pregnant people'. They objected to the comprehensive file of training material that cannot bring itself to use the word 'woman'. Woman occurs just four times!

It's 20 minutes long. At times they talk over themselves. The air is blue. They mock the training relentlessly, and there is much laughter and sisterhood. When they speak individually, they are articulate.

Their spirit and determination to show the world that they will take a stand is bloody brilliant.

What on earth do these women expect from "doula training"?

Many women working as birth doulas also work as "sacred sexual healers" / "tantric sex coaches" / "sex doulas" whatever new name is given to new age sex work.

Doulas are a great idea in theory as an auxiliary person to support a woman through birth and labour (never as a substitute for proper medical care), in practice a significant are associated with criminal cults and new age sex work.

Expressing outrage that a doula training course is woke is like being surprised to discover that your local tantric yoga class is run by a sexual predator.

WTF hoodathunkit? I don't know what you think the word 'doula' means, but having had two birth doulas and one post-partum doula help me through birth and the early weeks of parenthood I think you're misunderstanding what the vast majority of doulas do. They are (for the most part), women who help other women to deal with birth and it's aftermath. End of story.

And I don't blame them for being pissed off. WOMEN get pregnant and give birth.

I trained as a doula with a diverse bunch of 'normal' women. None of us were wafty swishy yoga types.

We were well aware of it being women who give birth though.

What?? Doulas are not in any way sex workers! How bizarre

In USA also its v different.

They (the powers that be) don't like midwives. They make life v difficult for them. They want birth to be medical used, in hosp, in doctors realm. Have read a lot about this from USA midwives on feminist forums. In some states attending as a midwife at a home birth is? illegal (or something, was a couple years back I read),.

One way of doing this type of work without getting into all that is be a doula.

This needs to be looked at within the context of USA healthcare systems and culture.

Yeah lol at sex workers

My PP was also in response to hoods post and a long winded way of saying you're talking bollocks

I had a doula for my 2 VBACs. Couldn't have done it without her.

Great that they are making a stand. Hope they don't suffer too much for it

These women were attending, and had paid for, abortion doula training.

They got chucked out after an hour and a half of "gender sensitivity training" that they didn't want or ask for, for objecting to female erasure eg the term pregnant people.

The one who got chucked out does a fantastic rant
She needs her own youtube channel.

What on earth do these women expect from "doula training"?

I think that's quite clear. They expected training on helping women. Instead they got a trans ideology / female erasure indoctrination class.

I read a very good Twitter thread this morning (can't find it now) explaining why the 6-week time limit on abortion is ludicrous, as in practice it means the woman is only 4 weeks pregnant and only 2 weeks past her missed period. Someone took her to task for using the term "pregnant women" rather than "pregnant people" and she actually apologised. How can someone be so clear-eyed and sensible in one regard and so uncritical in another?

I don't blame them for being pissed 0ff. They are women wanting to help other women and being told to go along with something they don't believe in.

Like a cool shower on a hot day, THIS is feminism, this is sisterhood, this is women being f*cking brilliant.

Love them all, and just so refreshed they are being so in yer face and so fabulous. Gives me hope that there are brilliant women like this refusing to STFU, and saying it like it is.

LOVE this.
'I'm a fucking gender abolitionist'.
'Politics is about the allocation of resources.'
And I love the solidarity - those 3 women who walked out with her.

Regarding doulas and sex work

I do not believe that all doulas are sex workers, however there is a serious problem with the interface between doulas, so called alternative medicines (SCAM) and various pseudo-spiritual and personal development cults, some of which promote sex work.

The doulas that openly advertise themselves as purveyors of "yoni massage" "lingam massage" and "sacred spot massage" etc. seldom describe themselves as sex workers. They use euphemisms

for example

"Jada Sun is a true Temple Priestess, Liscensed Master Massage Therapist, Doula, Intuitive Life, Sex, and Consciousness Coach, and Working Artist. She is a proven leader in her spiritual community, and has been recognized by the masters in the field as one who has come in to midwife the birthing of the new world. She is quickly becoming well known for her particularly potent flavor of magical medicine, which is deeply healing to the mind, body, and soul.
She has studied with ISTA Internationally, and has studied with a small handful of shamanic practictioners, including Hawaiian Kumu Lomi Lomi, an initiate of the Melissae (The Honeybee Priestesses), and Native American Trackers. “

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190510171452/www.schooloftemplearts.org/Profile/259/jada-sun" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190510171452/www.schooloftemplearts.org/Profile/259/jada-sun

The ISTA website in which this doula appears is very interesting and actively promotes sex work as a neglected, ancient, healing / therapeutic spiritual tradition. Given my understanding of the euphemism that this woman uses to describe herself and the circles she moves in I believe she is a sex worker.

also see this example:

"Annabel has spent many years studying and working in the fields of Tantra and sacred sexuality (since 2005), shamanic dance and ritual (since 1999), massage, healing, conflict resolution (AVP Britain), mindfulness meditation, community Arts, the media and as a birth doula."

web.archive.org/web/20180325164632/www.tantralink.com/therapists/bella-manchester/

Also see an advertisement for a “dakini goddess circle” event advertised in the same tantralink website (a kind of online new age sex worker’s directory) as the above doula (scroll down)

“I have been a woman holding safe space for women for over a decade now. First as a doula and midwife and now as a tantric healer, educator and advocate for women’s rights & empowerment.”

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190510115946/www.tantralink.com/event/love-the-skin-you-are-in-dakini-goddess-circle/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190510115946/www.tantralink.com/event/love-the-skin-you-are-in-dakini-goddess-circle/

It is important to understand that the words “dakini" and “goddess" are appropriated words used frequently as euphemisms for new age sex workers.

Also see this extremely interesting website

“About Me
I am a birth doula, Sexological Bodyworker, Somatic Experiencing practitioner, postpartum care advocate, and single mom.”

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190305213133/www.magamama.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190305213133/www.magamama.com/

Sexological Bodyworkers claim to be able to release repressed memories of sexual trauma via genital massage and other sexual acts. They claim to be therapists rather than sex workers. Their websites commonly describe services including genital and anal massage (may be referred to euphemistically) and end with a statement that “I do not provide sexual services” and / or “orgasm / ejaculation may happen during your session but this is not the aim of the session”.

another example can be found here

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20180414111732/www.chuladoula.com/about-me/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20180414111732/www.chuladoula.com/about-me/

further link of interest
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20180421200759/sexologicalbodyworkers.org/what-is/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20180421200759/sexologicalbodyworkers.org/what-is/

Of course not all doulas are sex workers or sexological bodyworkers or whatever orifice massaging pseudo-professional name that come up with next.

However there is the extremely important issue of doulas being used to promote quackery, pseudoscience and cults and linked to this the issue of doula training courses and “natural birth” events being used to recruit qualified midwives and use them to promote a variety of quack treatments within the NHS, of which more later.

There is also the issue of the history of doulas since the advent of the Internet and the fascinating tangential links between the doula / natural birth / ecstatic birth / orgasmic birth movements and cults linked to TRA, MRA and MGTOW networks, which is a subject that I do not have time to detail here right now, but I will post about this on this thread when I have a moment.

For the record, I think that pregnant women, women giving birth and new mothers deserve the very best care and are not infrequently let down and experience avoidable physical and emotional injuries as a result.

I am not remotely opposed to the idea of a professional person who provides a gentle, nurturing and supportive service to new mothers pre and postpartum.

I do not have a problem with women wanting their experiences of giving birth to be less emotionally and physically traumatic.

I am concerned about the appropriation of this concept by some rather dubious groups and networks, of which more later.

Also if you take the time to examine some of the training organisations for doulas they seem to be (at least those I have checked out) so woke as to be wokest of the woke which, given the dubious groups associated with the doula movement is unsurprising.

Also to be clear, I have no doubt that there are some fine, skeptical, rational women out there who either are doulas of who have trained as such and who are not involved with either quackery or cults.

I would like very much for us to explore my concerns on this thread so that we can all educate one another about our various viewpoints and concerns.

Start your own thread.
These doulas have nothing to do with what you are talking about.
Why is it OK to appropriate the thread talking about their video, which doesn't even touch on any of the themes you mention?

I agree with Countess hoods needs a separate thread as it's a totally different issue.

I do not believe it is a different issue at all, but I don't have time right now to spend hours posting here

The doulas are expressing anger that their training organisation is woke

I am not challenging their anger, just wondering why they are so surprised that this happened

Here is the fb page for the doula training they took (or didn't take)

www.facebook.com/pg/coloradodoulaproject/about/?ref=page_internal

Why was the wokeness such a big surprise given that it is completely visible on the fb page?

final post for a bit ...

The modern doula movement was founded by Dr. Michel Odent who trained many doulas, who went on to train other doulas

A skeptical female gynaecologist's thoughts on Dr. Michel Odent, founder of the modern doula movement

www.skepticalob.com/2017/10/michel-odent-another-old-white-male-mansplainin-childbirth-to-us-womenfolk.html

www.skepticalob.com/2009/07/why-lie-about-childbirth-pain-and.html

There are currently a proliferation of conferences and seminars on the subject of sexual and reproductive health that promote quackery and pseudoscience. Some aim to recruit properly trained and qualified NHS staff into promoting quackery to vulnerable people

A poster from one, just as an example,
www.instagram.com/p/BxAGx84lk11/

I am not going to hide my prejudices here, I hold my hand up, guilty as charged, I am 100% against all and any kinds of quackery. I do not care whether or not people want to use homeopathy or reflexology or whatever, it is up to people’s personal choice but I’m not going to let this stuff infiltrate our NHS without a battle.

I am not claiming that all doulas are sex workers. I am also not claiming that the concept of doulas is a wrong or bad.

I am saying that women seeking help from doulas and women aspiring to train as doulas need to check the allegiances, training and accrediting bodies and potential links to cults of the doula with extreme care - which I suppose brings me back to the OP.

I have saved all my posts as documents, so if others feel strongly I can repost on a new thread - not trying to make enemies here

Women get pregnant. That’s the way of it. If you are pregnant - you’re a woman.

Now should a woman decide that she would prefer to be a man, yet still get pregnant (damn biology) then hey, their healthcare provider can call them whatever helps them along. But why should all women, mums and mommies be sent to gender neutral purgatory?

Like a cool shower on a hot day, THIS is feminism, this is sisterhood, this is women being fcking brilliant.*

Yep. Unfiltered and brilliant. A great antidote to all the bullshit.