Article: Fundamentally misunderstanding gender critical feminism

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Ani O'Brien has written a response to a piece What is ‘Gender Critical’ anyway? On essentialism and transphobia by Danielle Moreau.

It's well done, though Ani's statement about the pathetic skerrick of hope I have that if people who have expressed so much hate for us can be so fundamentally wrong about what we stand for then perhaps if they learnt the truth we could find just a little bit of middle ground seems a forlorn hope to me.

Oh, and Mumsnet gets a mention in both articles. Why people are surprised that people on a predominantly female forum are concerned about women's rights remains a mystery, as does the outrage that a site called Mumsnet would be full of posters with a keen interest in children and strong views on giving GNC children dangerous off label meds.

medium.com/@aniobrien/fundamentally-misunderstanding-gender-critical-feminism-baebb2e953e3

It's a very good article.

I hate it when these current "feminists" dis the first and second waves as if what they acheived for women was nothing. Women's lives were changed totally because of what previous generations of women did for us.

I think it's, in part, a way to dismiss the older women as outdated or irrelevant. It's easy therefore to ignore their experiences and opinions.

They forgot to say we are all funded by the Kremlin.

We’re being funded by the Kremlin now as well as the US right wing? Excellent. Somebody send them the link to Maya’s crowdfunder.

Wow. Ani’s article is excellent... but I’m still stunned by the profound and complete dishonesty of the piece she’s responding to, the Danielle Moreau one.

I mean, I know I shouldn’t be surprised when someone who promotes an ideology that is rooted in denying material and sociological reality then goes on to lie about and completely misrepresent what their opponents believe.

But this: What makes TERF ideology reactionary rather than radical is its dedication to binary gender essentialism... Gender essentialism is the idea that there is an innate, immutable ‘womanness’ or ‘manness’ which expresses itself in what we consider ‘femininity’ or ‘masculinity’.

I just can’t get over it! Danielle and Danielle’s ilk are the ones promoting gender essentialism, with their “innate, immutable womanness” that they say exists independently of the sexed body; telling the whole world this is a real thing, pulling endless “scientific” studies and articles out of their arses to “prove” their “innate gender” bollocks, and yet here is Danielle saying that this is what we believe in and are preaching, when we say and believe the EXACT opposite.

I know Ani addresses this, how could she not, but I’m still just a whole new level of gobsmacked. Unbelievable.

Just when you think they can’t get any more batshit...

Empress

great article, thank you for linking

If not because of our bodies, our sex, why were and are women oppressed?

well yes indeed.

I would just like to say that I joined Mumsnet because people here are free to express their gender critical views. I have seen three feminist forums shut down in the past decade, because gender critical views were not allowed.

Yes, I think the accusation that GC RadFems are believing and teaching that femininity is for exclisively for women and masculinity is exclusively for men is so absurdly erroneous I'm astonished a critic of anything GC can say it with a straight face.

The essence of what we talk about here is that the only reliable quantification of female is biology - 'femininity' is irrelevant.

It's been repeated ad museum. What is 'Victorian' about that? Their stupid trans ideology is so wedded to the idea of certain traits being only for women or men that you encourage people to chop up bits of their bodies to conform better to those stereotypes, which is about as regressive an idea as I can possibly imagine.

Sometimes I think they view stupidity and ignorance as a virtue to be cultivated.

I think it's clear we radfems have a better understanding of the largely incomprehensible nonsense of queer theory and 'genderism' than they do of actual feminism.

Quite frankly, I think it's clear we radfems have a better understanding of the largely incomprehensible nonsense of queer theory than they do. They can't even get their own ideology straight half the time.

I mean to italicise my bowdlerising bit there, Spartacus, sorry!

Placemarking

Very true, indeed, Lang!

I just can’t get over it! Danielle and Danielle’s ilk are the ones promoting gender essentialism, with their “innate, immutable womanness” that they say exists independently of the sexed body; telling the whole world this is a real thing, pulling endless “scientific” studies and articles out of their arses to “prove” their “innate gender” bollocks, and yet here is Danielle saying that this is what we believe in and are preaching, when we say and believe the EXACT opposite.

It happens so often. I don't know if they believe what they are saying, or they are just talking nonsense in the hope that some people who don't quite understand believe it.

I tweeted Ani O'Brien, author of the linked article, asking if she'd seen this thread. She replied

No I hadn’t! I don’t have an account. Thank you for sharing. Please tell them I say hello and thank you for their comments xx

So now of course I've encouraged her to join Mumsnet.

twitter.com/PrawnoftheP/status/1126419140909117440?s=19

Nice move Prawn, sounds like Ani would have lots of interesting things to say

Quite frankly, I think it's clear we radfems have a better understanding of the largely incomprehensible nonsense of queer theory than they do. They can't even get their own ideology straight half the time

That’s because we have to think about it, not merely accept it. This isn’t a unique experience: as an atheist I’ve often found myself more familiar with what the bible actually says than many of it’s more passionate believers.

Yes I know what you mean.

Thanks so much for sharing this Prawn , its a great article.

I read the one by Moreau which 'inspired' it & was muttering incoherantly about it whilst walking the dog. Its great that Ani O'Brian's response is so useful.

Ani O'Brien writes brilliantly & is doing a great deal in NZ. It would be interesting to know how things are going there.

See current statement by Ani O'Brien/ Speak Up For Women following disclosure of alleged sexual assault by male prisoner in female estate:

"Wellington, 10 May 2019
Speak Up For Women is dismayed to learn that a transgender prisoner being held in Christchurch Women’s Prison is being investigated for sexual assault against a female prisoner.

While the investigation is ongoing, it is the women of Christchurch Women’s Prison who Speak Up For Women is concerned about. “It has taken a whistle-blower for these allegations to come to light, only after she had left the prison. Our concern is that women are not feeling safe or able to speak out in these situations. We want to make it clear that we are here to advocate for these women should they need it,” says Ani O’Brien, spokeswoman for Speak Up For Women." (continues)
speakupforwomen.nz/sex-assault-investigation-trans-prisoner/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3581976-Transgender-prisoner-being-investigated-for-assault-in-NZ