Sharon Davies on Radio 2

[needsahouseboy]

Anyone listened to Sharon Davies on Radio 2 talking about XY chromosomes and sport and how it is negatively impacting on women (XX women that is)?

Oh I didn't realise Martina was as well. Sharon pointed out that it makes it a very unfair playing field allowing XY (her wording) people into women's events and that in years to come there will be no women in sport. She also pointed out that it means XX women are not gaining access to sponsorship etc because XY 'women', due to biology have an unfair advantage and will therefore win events.

I'm glad it is getting out there. Be the gender you want but understand that you don't push biological women out the way.

Almost every comment, read out was pro Caster competing with women.

One stated that because she has a womb and ovaries, then she is a woman. Why didn't anyone correct this? There is so much misinformation out there, it's so frustrating.

I agree Lizzie, haven't listened to this piece (although Martina was brilliant) but I actually thought Caster was a woman until recently - it really need to be explicitly clear in all media coverage. I think talking about his chromosomes is really key when discussing DSD, it's complex and needs clarification so listeners can get the facts.

Lizzie Yes! Why wasn’t the caller corrected!?

I don’t think it’s fair to refer to Caster as a man and he. Whether she has an unfair advantage due to her chromosomes snd DSD condition is a different issue.

Sharon was fantastic. Clear, concise and got her point across really well. What a great advocate for the truth.

I agree that she should be referred to as ‘she’ and it is a complex issue around the fairness of her competing.
If she is allowed to continue though, couldn’t any male claim to be female and suffer from hyperandrogegism and therefore compete in women’s sports?

The media coverage is more worrying. I feel like some are implying that she is biologically female and just happens to suffer from higher testosterone levels than is typical for a woman. Which is just not the case here.

Yes Sharron was great but followed by lots of mainly male people saying how unfair the decision was for CS. Followed by article promoting sex shops and how great it was to be able to get hold of hard core porn on the high street and that people who don’t use sex shops have crap sex etc
Typical BBC

Is Caster XY and not XX? I had also assumed she was a woman but with abnormally high testosterone levels. Stupid question maybe but how do you test the chromosomes, is it a simple blood test?

Caster has always maintained privacy around her condition. However if you read the CAS press release you will see it talks about particular DSDs which relate to XY chromosomes. She wouldn't have had standing to challenge these unless she was affected herself. It seems she is chromosomally male but didn't develop external genitalia.

A blood test sent for genetic testing will show up all chromosomes including XX/XY and any anomalies.

I previously thought CS was XX with an intersex condition and whole heartedly supported them being able to compete in womens events. But it now seems they are in fact XY with undescended testicles - therefore male. If that is true then I can no longer support them competing against women.

Genderfreelass - ah, I would also agree.

I previously thought CS was XX with an intersex condition and whole heartedly supported them being able to compete in womens events.

You're not alone. I think most people did.

But the secrecy surrounding the test results has now been exposed. And it appears that this is a male individual with a DSD, not a female individual with a DSD.

Which makes it completely different.

The ruling today related to XY individuals with DSD and applies to races between 400m and 1 mile so shorter and longer races are not subject to this ruling.

People affected by this are required to reduce their testosterone levels to something approximating 3 times that of the highest level usually measured in XX people, for 6 months prior to competing

So it's an XX race, but if you are XY and DSD, you can train as hard as you like, build muscle, stamina, heart and lung capacity and then if you reduce your testosterone to three times that of an XX person, you can compete.

Taking how we feel about the individual out of the picture and putting the feelings of all XX women into the frame, this is still very difficult to see how this reflects fairness in sport towards XX people.

Coe said, “Athletics has two classifications: it has age, it has gender. We are fiercely protective about both.''' The problem with this statement, with gender having been redefined is that he has left it up to interpretation what this means for other XY people who identify as female gender.

The statement from Coe is not very helpful. Now it is clear that CS is male with a DSD, the question is why should CS be able to compete in the female category at all?

I felt very sorry for CS when I thought CS was female with a DSD. Now I feel CS has had a lucky break finding this opportunity in sport. CS has made lots of money, has a beautiful (heterosexual) wife and seems to live in a male social role. I don't think many South African living in poverty let alone those with DSDs would have the opportunities or that lifestyle CS has had.

Can someone explain how this affects trans athletes?

Meanwhile fairness issues aside I think having the world speculate on your genitals must be pretty brutal.

Like everyone else, I assumed (as she was allowed to race with women) that Caster was a woman. Indeed, I was vociferous in my support when she burst onto the scene and people were seemingly questioning her womanhood based on her lack of stereotypical femininity. I was an ardent supporter.
I actually feel completely duped by the sporting bodies. They deliberately misled everyone and allowed Caster to compete as a woman. I’m seriously pissed. This deliberate obfuscation has paved the way for other XY individuals to compete in XX competition.
And the fact that she can still compete as a woman is going to make it even easier for the likes of Rachel McKinnon and other XY athletes to use Semenya as precedent.
I spent last night yelling at the tv. By which I mean television. Obv.

I really think there has to be a full investigation into the suggestions that scouts have been deliberately targeting XY individuals with this DSD though. It could be a very important way to refute the current claims that honest guv, being a man doesn’t confer ANY advantage at all when competing against XX individuals.

I actually feel completely duped by the sporting bodies. They deliberately misled everyone and allowed Caster to compete as a woman. I’m seriously pissed. This deliberate obfuscation has paved the way for other XY individuals to compete in XX competition.

I totally agree 50shadesofgreyrock. I feel for CS and her privacy but this conversation has to be had once and for all.

I'm also angry as I think that this situation has enabled the continued misogynist abuse of the Williams sisters and other women. If the accusations of maleness could be 100% and unequivocally refuted, none of the misogynist bile would gain any wider traction. Then women really could at last be celebrated for being physical and muscley and entirely female. That would be real progress.

I am a little bit inclined to think that it was a deliberate stitch up by some, and of course there was always the other agenda at work.. we just did not know about that either.

50 I agree about the scouts. I think it also contradicts the common claims that no-one would do this just for competitive advantage.