Work policy coming in. AIBU?

[MyCatHogsTheBed]

Some people in my workplace have started changing their signatures to include preferred pronouns.

A bit of digging shows they've recently attend workplace inclusivity training. The company makes a big deal out of standardising email signatures so I think it's only a matter of time until we are all told to add it to ours.

Two things:

1. I REALLY don't want to have to add my preferred pronouns to my email signature. I can't articulate why though, apart from its just political correctness gone mad - am I just being unreasonable?

2. recent workplace emails, feedback questionnaires, online forms etc have asked for gender. There are a whole load of options to scroll through to get to woman. The options include "Cis woman" and, so far, Woman, too. 🙄 I've answered a range of answers to the gender question, usually woman but occasionally non-binary or undisclosed. I don't know what my question here is really, apart from have any of you come across this and what do you do when there isn't a ODFOD or sex option?? They are of course always compulsory questions 🙄

Finally, I can't give too many details as I'm already at risk of outing myself, but we have this inclusivity training meeting soon where by the sound of it we have to tell others our gender and sexuality. I am not out, either at work or to many of my friends and family who come across my workplace colleagues. What the hell do I say?! "I am an adult human sex female and the rest you can go whistle for because it's none of your business???"

WTAF I cannot fathom why any kind of coerced disclosure is either necessary or acceptable! There are any number of reasons why people choose not to disclose personal information such as sexuality, marital status or religion at work and I'm fairly sure our privacy is protected by law.

If I had to go to this training, if dissent was not an option, I would plan to do the same as you - keep my mouth shut, my head down and patiently wait for it to be over.

However, if they coerce you in this fashion, it'd be much harder for me to keep my thoughts to myself. Disclosure is voluntary only where we do not feel peer pressure to disclose and where we do not single ourselves out by refusing.

This is why disclosure in such a setting is generally a bad idea. It's not spontaneous, it's not need-based and it serves no purpose that benefits the person making the disclosure or someone they wish to support.

I would probably just state my name calmly and sit down again. If the trainer then asks any question 're pronouns or sexuality, I would probably just say that I keep my private life private thank you for asking though and stare them down.

If they keep going after that, I would flatly state that I consider their intrusion into non-work related aspects of my life to be harassment and wildly inappropriate and that I will be putting in a complaint about this.

Also, a legal eagle told us at a meeting recently that asking how their training interacts with existing safeguarding procedures is an excellent question to safely throw a little spanner in the works. Followed by a complaint identifying any conflicts with existing safeguarding rules. I know from others that some of these complaints have been successful.

But obviously only where you feel safe to do so.

Pressure to come out unwillingly is surely grounds to take their arses to the cleaners for sexual harassment and discrimination, surely?

An employer has no right to such personal information and as others have said asking it is harassment.

I'm an employer not an employee but, setting aside DBS checks if relevant, the only personal information an employer needs is the contact details of someone to contact in an emergency (and they don't need to know your relationship with that person) Even there an employee can say there is no-one.

Youare under no legal obligation totell an employerthatyou have a disability (unless there are very specific health and safety risks, which are rare). The idea that they can ask your sexual orientation is nonsense.

Many employees will of course disclose information voluntarily about disability and/or personal circumstances, if relevant , or just in the course of conversation but an employer should not be asking for such information.

Thank you LassOfFyvie I thought that was the case.

Maybe you could also couch it in this being discriminatory to trans people who aren't out - they'd probably listen to that. A closeted trans might not want to share their preferred pronouns and sexual orientation with work colleauges.

So intrusive and woman-hating though, and they make it impossible for you to speak out honestly.

To be clear I'm not comparing sexual orientation and disability. The point of referring to disability is that I'm sure many people might think that if you have a disability you should tell your employer just in case something happens. You don't have to unless it is something like explaining that you can't drive or operate power tools because you have a history of fits or seizures.

This is outrageous! Some great suggestions that I hope you can use above.

On forms where it asks for gender, but means sex I click the other box and write adult human female. If it is paper I cross out gender and put sex then write female.
I had to do this on my daughter's secondary school form this year where they asked for gender and the choice was male/female. (Also sent an email about their language use.)

"My names is Mary (or whatever), It is bloody obvious I am female and nobody's business if I fuck females/males or small furry creatures.

My name is XXXX. My sexuality is . . . . . . . . . . interesting. My pronouns are it/it.

I have a GC friend who works for a woke housing association who is in a similar position to you. Most of her other colleagues put their preferred pronouns in the email signatures. One person who tried to take the piss by making up a pronoun was given a formal warming. So far when asked why she hasn't changed her signature my friend has said things like 'It's number 241 on my list of things to do' or has said she still needs time to think about it because she finds the whole issue of gender confusing and can't say for certain what gender she is. This seems to have worked so far.

There was a thread on this recently I will try to find it for you. I was reassured that there are no legal grounds to have to comply with this shite, though there is some great advice on here already.

' said she still needs time to think about it because she finds the whole issue of gender confusing and can't say for certain what gender she is.'

That's a brilliant bit of passive resistance.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3529096-Pronouns-an-invasion-of-privacy?pg=1&order=

This thread clarifies that the NI gay cake ruling is the key here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3545657-School-are-marking-trans-day-of-visibility-and-have-sent-out-link-to-stonewall-article

So as PP said in that thread, the NI Gay marriage Cake ruling stated that Freedom of expression, as guaranteed by article 10 of the European convention on human rights, includes the right “not to express an opinion which one does not hold”... end result nobody can make you express genderist beliefs if you don’t share these.

I've just copied and pasted that information and sent it to her so that if pressure is put on her she can move on from passive resistance to something more legalistic.

I do think pulling a serious face and saying 'The more I read about gender identity the more complex it becomes and the more difficult I find it to know my own gender for certain' would be an excellent way out of the situation. If pushed, saying you're trying to make a decision between Alexigender or Quoigender or whatever and ask them what they think should make them back off and take you seriously.

ThatDamnWoman - that's roughly what I said to my teenagers when they decided to lecture me about the 72 or so genders 'that we now know about'. After all, if ACE polygender/two-spirit/agender is a thing, it must surely have always been a thing, and I might be one, without previously realising it, right?

The thought that middle-aged mothers might not entirely identify with female stereotypes made them go wary-eyed and retreat rapidly backwards from the kitchen and the conversation.

:)

"I do not identify as being someone who has preferred pronouns. As such, if forced to select and declare one, I would feel uncomfortable and feel it would undermine my identity. However, in the spirit of making life straightforward for those I interact with, I am comfortable with them applying whatever pronouns they feel are appropriate."

I like this (I bet you are good at your job)

"I would simply give my name and then look at the next person saying I have nothing more to add"

Ooh OOh OOH!
I can finally recommend full-on Lizzie Bennett!

"``I do not pretend to possess equal frankness with your ladyship. You may ask questions which I shall not choose to answer.''"

Point out that they have only listed [insert number here] genders and pronoun options this time whereas on other forms they offer a different set of options. And on facebook they offer 72. So what happens if you identify as something not identified today? or that is identified on facebook but not on the list? Or that is on the list today but is left off a different list - does it get ignored? do you get identified as something else? Is there a we;ve been told but we don't have the option on this list but we can't put anytinhg else in instead? because I think I'd like that option please...

I'd also ask what happens when people identify as different things on different days (like Pip/Phillip Bunce) depending on how they are feeling. Bunce is supported in his work and has two different emails so he can use teh right one depending on how he is feeling... no idea how you are supposed to know if you reply or talk on a dfferent day. But it does raise the issue that all this training seems to assume that for most people it's a permanent transition wjereas there are definitely a significant subset for whom it's a case of having two distinct identiies, which obviously training like this doesn't really cater for. so maybe for the purposes of the training you could decide to identify as something just for the day - today I identify as somebody that is very offended by being asked to discuss my gender and sexuality. Or today I can safely say that I am not sexually or otherwise attracted to any of you...

Alternatively go surreal - I'd like to identify as a wombat - pronoun wom.