18 year old drag queen BBC

[Outanabout]

Anyone else watch this last night?

I had mixed emotions when watching it - he was a very sweet boy, I'd want to support him if he were my son.

I started watching by chance when he was talking about going to the prom in drag. His school, very sensibly, had said that the prom was for everyone, not for one person to be the centre of attention (not in those words, but that was the gist). He seemed to take that on board, and said he wouldn't go in drag after all. Every time he made what was really a sensible decision, his mother came barrelling in talking about standing up for himself, and being true to himself.

Then he did his drag act debut. Part of that, which was a little scripted scene, showed him triumphing over the female nurse, kicking her to the ground as he 'got the man'.

Roll on the night of the prom, he decides to go in drag. When he turns up it was exactly as the school had predicted, it all became about him. His friends and their parents all threatened not to go if he wasn't allowed in. I couldn't believe that the other parents decided to cheer on such nonsense, at the possible cost of their own children's big night.

I didn’t watch it, but regarding going to prom in drag, surely it’s just clothes? Unless all the important parts of him weren’t covered?

Therefore I’m not sure what the schools objection could be to him dressing that way for prom?

He is doing not to bad out of this he has a musical about him ! I watched it first time round I don't think he is transgenger is he but a drag queen is that right ?

Supposedly drag, not trans. In that case, why would he want to wear drag to the prom? You could see girls in the background wearing huge hoopy dresses, he was in a rather horrible black see-through number, and the centre of attention. The whole night was about him.

It definitely blurred the lines between drag and trans

It's all about getting attention imo and his Mum actively encourages it.

If you choose to do drag as entertainment at an entertainment venue or on a regular night out that's up to you but to do it when so many wanted to be able to enjoy spending time with friends, flirting with their crush and dancing the making the Drag Queen The talked about thing takes away from that.

Drag queens are not subtle though he is going to be LOOK AT ME ! not them ME! Personally i thought he was a pain in the arse

I guess the point is that it shouldn't be a big deal if men want to wear dresses but the whole thing and vibe about drag is that it's deliberately OTT and flamboyant. Drag isn't supposed to blend in. Time and a place springs to mind.

Mrsjayy I really thought it was mostly coming from those around him. He was a self-absorbed teenager, but his mother and the other parents who threatened a walk-out made it into a 'brave and stunning' thing. Brave and stunning would have been not stealing everyone else's limelight.

Yeah everybody was far to enthusiastic in supporting him.

I caught the end of the programme.
My thoughts were, he's a decent dancer, has good stage presence. Imagine if he did everything he likes doing (dancing, performing, lipsynching) but instead of parodying the female sex with his caricature, he was just a male stage version of his own, gay male self?

Why do people have such a blind spot about the sexist parody of women that is drag?
We've learned not to tolerate racist parody, or disablist parody.

Watching men 'be' a mockery of women is just accepted as their godgiven male right.

It's amazing what people can be groomed to accept if they're told everyone else is ok with it.

Men who believe they are women because of stereotypes
Men who dress up as a mockery of women through stereotypes
Men who like stereotypes of women
Women who facilitate all that shit

I do wish men would f*CK off a bit and leave women alone.

Barracker completely agree.

Turn over now whenever anything drag related comes on TV.

I find it massively disrespectful to women.

I watched the musical with our 14-year-old sons, and loved it. Found it joyful, and life-affirming - and most of all, relished how it messaged to our boys that you can dress in silky frocks, high heels and sequins and glitter, and paint your face, and still be a man.

Maybe it works better as an idealised story (Billy Elliot style) with songs. Or maybe I'm a Bad Feminist....

And just to play devils' advocate... if we follow through with GC logic, 'drag queens' aren't 'dressing as women' - because as we know, 'womanhood' has nothing to do with clothes, hair, heels, or make-up. So as long as they aren't claiming to be women; what's the problem, any more than when an actual woman goes OTT with the tits and lipgloss, because that's how she wants to present?

I did feel that the BBC audience was being groomed into being cheerleaders for brave and stunning and ignoring those silly cunty girls who were never going to be as fabulous. Programme by programme gay is becoming passe.

I hate womanface and I’ve lobbied against self id and to retain single sex spaces (prisons,refuges etc.)
However it was a sweet film about prejudice- and the lack of it. I doubt any school now would object to a drag attendee at prom- in the 80s there were a handful of boys in makeup and girls in tuxedos at my prom. Unfortunately those same schools wouldn’t segregate for changing and residential. Ultimately this affirming story is not really relevant.

I didn't see it. Was s/he transgender or was he a drag queen act?

multivac, what's the problem with people wearing blackface? He wasn't trying to look like a boy wearing what he wanted, he was looking like a parody of women, or porn stars.

I switched off when everyone was milling round outside the prom so don't know what musical you mean.

Floral, drag queen act.

Well, continuing to be devil's advocate, outanabout, I would point out that the colour of one's skin is actually a clear indicator of one's ethnicity, at least on a very simplistic level; whereas lipstick and high heels are not uniquely linked to a particular sex.

The musical is 'Everyone's Talking About Jamie'. The documentary is from 2011, when Jamie was 16.

My point is that the lipstick and heels aren't worn a la Adam Ant or Depeche Mode. That was men mucking around with gender.

They're worn complete with fake breasts, a fake female name, fake female pronouns and a parody of what is unequivocally intended to be a female performance. His intent, as with all drag isn't to validate that men can do this stuff and be men. It's the opposite. It's men can do this stuff and look, they're being women, here comes Fifi LaPissTake and her hilarious boobs and her twerking ladyarse.

They aren't mocking gender stereotypes. And even if they were, it's as dodgy as white people mocking black stereotypes. No, they're mocking actual women for kicks.

Wot she said

shrugs

That's not actually what this kid thought he was doing, imo. He just loved being fabulous. It's not how I want to present, as a woman - it doesn't represent ultimate womanhood, for me. But I can understand that it's a space plenty of people - of both sexes - want to move in. And I don't find it particularly more offensive or worrying when the person presenting those stereotypes has a penis or doesn't (assuming, of course, that the penis or lack of it is acknowledged).

TLDR: You can't simultaneously yell 'external gender markers have nothing to do with sex!' and 'those external gender markers belong to US!'

The less attention you give someone like this the better. Stopping him from going to prom in 'drag' and getting everyone riled up about it will just feed the narcissism.

In college, one of the guys in our circle sometimes wore dresses to formal events for fun and as a statement that it's irrational to associate dress with biological sex. Nothing trans or queer about it AFAIK and no-one took a blind bit of notice although, personally, I appreciated his gender critical approach even then.