Legalised prostitution in Germany: from "Paradise" to hell.

[Lamaha]

The prostitution thread has been deleted so, as the subject is still worth debating, I thought I'd post this link from one of my posts there. The article describes the shocking conditions and human rights violations that come as a result of liberalising the prostitution laws; what happens when prostitution is normalised, and nobody blinks except the "prudes".

Prostitution in the educational system

Pro Familia, a member of the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF), is an organization that advises schools in their sex education materials. Among the material they recommended for teenagers is a book called, “Sexualpädagogik der Vielfalt“ (which loosely translates to “Sexual Pedagogy of Diversity”). This text includes suggestions and material for projects in which students are asked to name sex positions and to “modernize a brothel.” In small groups they are to discuss what “services” a “Freudenhaus der sexuellen Lebenslust” (which loosely translates to “pleasure house of sexual lust for life”) should offer.

Those who protested this kind of content being introduced into curriculum were accused of being “reactionary,” “conservative,” and “prudish.

Members of the teachers’ union (GEW) in the state of Hessen were offered advanced teacher training courses between 2006 and 2015, taught by a pro-decriminalization lobby group called “Dona Carmen.” Teachers could collect professional training credits by participating.

Chilling echoes of how the trans lobby works in the UK, right?

www.feministcurrent.com/2016/05/09/legalization-has-turned-germany-into-the-bordello-of-europe-we-should-be-ashamed/

The comments are also interesting.

As I have strong links to Germany and had some background information I wanted to share with her, I contacted the article's author through FB. She made me aware that there is a feminist conference in Bradford in October, sponsored by Filia, which she will be attending. I looked at the programme and see there is nothing there about the UK trans situation. I know nothing about this group of women; do you (pl.)? Why are they not addressing this important issue? Here's the link.
filia.org.uk/about-the-conference

Great post FermatsTheorem

If we don’t want to criminalise that type of ‘man’ WTF have we become as a society

I live in Germany and have two sons. It's awful. I don't want them to think it's normal. I love German culture for the most part but the sexual stuff really bothers me. It creeps into advertising and all sorts. It is considered perfectly normal to have nude or almost nude women as "attractive imagery" for your business. I've seen it for shower installers, building contractors and a fruit distributor among others. The other day I walked past a shop front advertising waterbeds for sale and on the waterbed was a female clothing model dressed in a PVC short dress and placed on the bed as if to say "come hither" - it was so weird and irrelevant.

ProFamilia are a bit of a strange organisation. They run a few KiTas around here (like nursery/daycare) and a friend was saying she'd been baffled by their attitude, they apparently refuse to participate in anything vaguely resembling religion so no Christmas or Easter celebrations. And she felt a lot of the staff were young and newly qualified and wanted to stick much too much to the letter of the guidelines (e.g. the hellish slowness of the official German "settling in period".) rather than looking at the child and making a judgement there.

BTW, a better translation for "Lebenslust" would be passion. Not that it really matters, and I know it wasn't your translation, it was just bothering me.

I am German but haven't lived there since 1994. I (skim) read some German media and used to post on a German parenting site (still occassionally check what is going on there) and visit family regularly.
The thing I noticed over the last couple of years is how political discurs has disappeared. I wouldn't actually now know where to go for similar discussions like the ones here on the feminist boards.
Bertie do you know of a site where you can have a proper discussion?

Nope, I don't use German sites, my German isn't good enough.

There have been a couple of studies which show clearly that what the buyers want is dominance, the feeling of lording it over someone.

Once you realise this the descriptor "paid rape" is almost undeniable. The idea that rape is a crime of passion still dogs every discussion of it, from "well what did she expect dressed like that?" to "aren't you afraid of lesbians attacking you since they fancy women to?" It's all predicated on the idea that rape is a reaction to attraction and lust, rather than power and dominance. Prostitution suffers from the same myth, that men use prostitutes because they're lonely, in need of a human connection, or are capable of loving the women they buy. The fact is that the exchange of money for sex establishes a power differential in 100% of cases. Decriminalising prostitution takes that one step further by contractually ossifying that power divide. It's the power imbalance, not the sex, that punters get off on. Just. Like. Rapists.

Great post Grabthars

Nothing is wasted here. I’ve learned so much from the thread started by the repellent punter and this follow up

I went to the Filia conference in Manchester last year.
Thoroughly recommend it.
Amazing international speakers & (Im pretty sure) there was a really important speech by a woman specifically about the sexual violence against women in Germany.
I will see if I can find a link.

It provided a really clear demonstration of the international issues facing women & enabled me to 'join up many dots' in my understanding and awareness.

Its inspiring to hear from and meet so many women who have been working for so long in different areas.

filia.org.uk/news

Some info re last years' Filia Conference:

(extract)
"The biggest women’s rights conference, FiLiA, took place this month. Rachel Bell shares how this annual conference motivated her why it is radical, revolutionary and the voice of reason in a world saturated with sexual objectification and male sexual violence (cntinues)

As FiLiA recent tweets inviting BBC Woman’s Hour along (they have never covered the conference) highlight, FiLiA amplifies the voices of women and girls on issues including femicide, abortion rights, immigration, class, equal pay, rape, media, prostitution, race and secularism. The annual conference has platformed hundreds of speakers – grassroots activists risking their lives to help women in danger, NGOs and academics from Afghanistan, South Africa, Sierra Leone, Tanzania, Russia, Norway and more. This year’s speakers include Professor Liz Kelly, Sheila Jeffreys, Sodfa Daaji, Hibo Wardere Kendra Houseman, and Dr Sasha Rackoff, founder of Not Buying It. FiLiA met with women’s groups in Germany to witness the devastation of a legalised system of prostitution, in Argentinia to support women fighting for abortion rights, and in Palestine, Norway and Ireland to understand women’s experience. FiLiA has created an Emerging Female Artist Prize and creative projects bring poetry and art to women in prisons and those who have endured domestic violence. That’s just a taster of its work and reach. "

By attending the annual conference since its inception, I have listened to the stories of women exploited around the world. Many survivors of prostitution have told their harrowing truths of exploitation that begins in childhood. The suffering and courage of the women I have heard at this conference is seismic. Thanks to them, I got my head straight on prostitution, understanding how neo-liberalism and patriarchy leave women in extreme poverty, how foreign migrant women have become trafficked goods for men in the west, why prostitution is a human rights abuse of the most vulnerable, why it completely undermines gender equality. I viewed the vital anti-porn documentary Pornland, and heard the compelling, no-nonsense Gail Dines, founder of Culture Reframed, show how the porn industry grooms boys to get hard on women and girls’ suffering, and ultimately, to become johns. How it take boys’ and men’s humanity, too. I heard from Campaign Against Sex Robots on how human, mutually consenting relations are under threat – and I will never forget the experience of hearing Bolton mum, Gemma Aitchison, who founded Yes Matters to challenge sexual objectification. Gemma’s 16-year-old sister, Sasha Marsden was stabbed 58 times and set alight before being dumped in an alley in what the press described as a ‘sexually motivated, sustained and ferocious attack’ by David Minto. Gemma told us how he referred to Sasha as ‘it’ in court. I had the privilege of listening to Susie Orbach, who showed how the beauty industry – by making profit from making women feel self-conscious, insecure and ashamed of their bodies – is a form of violence against us. Jameela Jamil is bang on. FiLiA is a wonderful hub for making contacts and friends. " (continues)
filia.org.uk/news/2018/10/25/filia-2018-the-biggest-womens-rights-conference-in-europe

Bertie do you know of a site where you can have a proper discussion

Nope, I don't use German sites, my German isn't good enough.

Have you guys tried Toytown Germany? It's an English speaking forum for anyone with connections to Germany: lives there, used to live there, wants to move there, born there, parents are German, etc. You just have to speak English. Lots of great people there and good discussions. Unfortunately also a lot of assholes, as everywhere. A mixed community and they discuss everything. Also lots of very helpful people if you have queries about anything Germany related, for instance, there are health insurance experts and also a tax expert who will give you detailed information in simple language and even find out the address of the office you need to visit, opening times, etc.
I left that forum due to a discussion on gender, in which several woke people pounced on me for holding GC opinions and I haven't returned, and anyway, I no longer live there. But it's a good place especially for expats who miss English speakers. They arrange meet-ups etc.

I have to say that it's possible to live in Germany and be completely oblivious of all of this. I had no idea; apart from being shocked when I saw a huge truck with a half-naked woman on the back as an ad, I never once encountered anything shady in public. Back when my kids were in school I'm sure they didn't get sex ed like that.
People (I mean middle-class, well situated citizens with homes and families) just don't talk about sex at all, at least not in my old neighbourhood, and certainly not at my workplace.

I did learn that at midnight some of the TV stations show porn.

A little anecdote concerning that: after 2016 I worked in a home for young refugees, mostly from Afghanistan, 16 male, 3 female. Once one of my female colleague was watching football onTV with some of the guys. At the stroke of midnight, the programme changes to a porn show and suddenly the screen was filled with naked women.
The Afghanis flipped out -- but not in the way you might think! One of them ran out of the room, most of the rest shrieked and covered their eyes, one of them had a laughing fit. They'd never seen naked women before.
I bet it wasn't long before they (most of them) became "integrated". A few of them were very devout Moslems with strict moral codes, and I believe they would have resisted temptation.

This is the speech from FiLia 2018:
'Patriarchy and Neoliberalism'

Presentation by Inge Kleine
(extract)
"From women's demands for sexual liberation we get led to the rhetorics of “sex work“ and the myth of the “happy hooker“, and to her right to engage in this “profession“ if she so chooses. In Germany, the pro-prostitution side will always remind us of a woman's right to choose her profession, granted in article 12 of our basic law and guaranteed by a supreme court ruling regarding “sex work“ – it is truly encouraging and heart warming how many men are dedicated to the cause and will in no time stand up for women's rights to be in prostitution! This in a country that has one of the lowest rates of women in parliament, in management positions, or in science.

From women's fights for access to paid work and for childcare we get a realignment of pension rights that practically pushes every woman with children who is a single mother into poverty, all in the name of equality, independence, and feminism, and from our struggles to include men in childcare we get the “fathers' rights movement“ which, together with so-called “pick-up artists“ form the worst kind of MRAs (cont.)

filia.org.uk/filia2018/2018/11/3/patriarchy-and-neoliberalism-by-inge-kleine

"About Inge: Feminist who took up activism in 2011 thanks to Nafissatou Diallo – the courageous woman who reported Strauss-Kahn for rape. Teacher in my “civil life” and Girls' Commissioner (Advocate) at my school. Campaigning against sexual and “domestic” violence and against prostitution, against the “fathers' rights” movement and against surrogacy, and taking part in Lesbian activism in Germany. Working from and with KOFRA in Munich (Communication Centre for Women Regarding Their Work and Life Situation), a feminist organisation and place for women to meet, organize, learn and discuss feminist demands and action. Working with other women, networking and bringing women together to shared action, launching and implementing campaigns, co-organizing conferences. Co-founder of Abolition 2014 and Initiative Stop Sexkauf which concentrate on abolishing prostitution. At an earlier period in my life doing literature and gender studies at Munich University and analysing feminity, semantics, female language and spaces in the English Gothic Novel at the end of the 18th century.

Find out more:
Twitter: @IngeReed
www.banishea.wordpress.com
www.abolition2014.blogspot.de
www.kofra.de
www.abolishprostitutionnow.wordpress.com
Articles on German rape laws, rape awareness actions, prostitution, surrogacy, in the Kofra Magazine. (In German). Articles in English on banishea and Abolition 2014.
filia.org.uk/speakers-2018/2018/8/21/inge-kleine

Thanks lamaha

I was more looking for a forum where Germans or residents in Germany discuss politics. The forum I used to be on was once really good for that, very different to MN, but it was a great way of keeping an eye on political and social opinions of people in Germany and how they change. It changed massively with the refugee crisis and Cologne and now you can’t have a discussion there at all anymore, people are just shouting Nazi or Gutmensch at each other, respectively. I finally flounced when a tiff about cherry picking scientific evidence descended into someone (a fervent homeopathy supporter and anti-vaxxer) started to sling all her grievances against me from the past 10 years at me coincided with a real life tragedy in my immediate neighbourhood and I just walked away. She probably thinks she won but I don’t care.
I occasionally go back and have a look to see if anything has changed but it seems that a large number of regular posters has left and now it is just really mundane stuff that gets posted. I do know from very few previous discussions that there are basically no gendercritical posters there. There is one (since I left) and she gets called a Nazi whenever she posts something gender critical. I sometimes read the comment sections in Spiegel but they frequently don’t allow comment and the format doesn’t really allow a proper discussion. It seems like all public political discourse has vanished and it worries me.

There are quite a few ethnic Germans or dual citizens on Toytown and they love to discuss politics, German as well as international. Just for your info! It's not just expats chatting about Marmite.

You could try Reddit perhaps. It can be a bit difficult to search for specific subreddits but there is one for everything. r/europe is entertaining.

Here for instance are two Toytown forums where politics are discussed. One for German themes:

www.toytowngermany.com/forum/forum/149-german-news/

ANd one for international themes: www.toytowngermany.com/forum/forum/281-international-affairs/

They discuss everything under the sun.

Thanks, I'll check out Toytown and reddit.

Germans whinge about lack of decent bread rather then lack of Marmite in my experience :)

Another part of the prostitution industry that maybe is forgotton...the sugar daddy scene, which many female students turn to for financial support and are manipulated and exploited. Cam across this interview with a daddy very insightful
Also read recently about a woman who travels free and strangers pay...www.misstravel.com/ advertised as an innocent dating/ travel website...hmmm
get-a-wingman.com/this-woman-dates-rich-men-and-travels-the-world-for-free/ However it is presented, these things are still ways to exploit women guised as ;consenting adults'. Some might argue it is the savvy women exploiting the men....

Germans whinge about lack of decent bread rather then lack of Marmite in my experience smile

That's very true but I was referring to the ex-pat Brits who whinge about Marmite! And cheddar cheese though it has become available in Germany in the last few years.