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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Politicians urge Scottish Government not to ‘rush’ gender change bill

28 replies

EweSurname · 24/04/2019 08:03

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/politicians-urge-scottish-government-not-to-rush-gender-change-bill-1-4913919

Fifteen senior SNP politicians, including three government ministers and a deputy presiding officer of the Scottish Parliament, have called for the Scottish Government not to “rush” into legislation they claim could change the definition of what it means to be male and female.

MSPs Kate Forbes, Ash Denham and Ivan McKee, who are all government ministers, have signed a public letter laying out their concerns about the increasingly bitter debate around proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA).

SNP colleagues Joan McAlpine, Ruth Maguire, Christine Grahame and Kenneth Gibson, along with their MP colleagues Carol Monaghan, Angus Macneil, Joanna Cherry and Patricia Gibson, are co-signatories.

The statement has also been signed by leading SNP councillors, including Chris McEleny, group leader at Inverclyde council, Caroline McAllister, deputy leader of the SNP group on West Dunbartonshire Council, Shaun Macaulay, deputy leader of the SNP group on North Ayrshire Council, and Lynne Anderson from North Lanarkshire Council.

In a challenge to the government and their own party, which meets for its annual conference this weekend, the 15 say that “conflating sex with gender identification affects a wide range of policy and service delivery, including data collection, education, health and social care, justice and sport. New information about this topic is emerging all the time and deserves to be properly scrutinised”.

The letter adds: “Changing the definition of male and female is a matter of profound significance. It is not something we should rush.”

The group welcomed last week’s intervention by equalities secretary Shirley-Anne Somerville in which she said people discussing transgender issues, self-identification of gender and women’s rights should “not be subject to knee-jerk accusations of transphobia”. They said all parliamentarians should be able to “discuss questions of law, policy and practice in relation to definitions of sex and gender in good faith, and without being subject to abuse of any kind”. [...]

OP posts:
JessicaWakefieldSV · 24/04/2019 08:07

Excellent!

Lumene · 24/04/2019 08:07

Oh that’s brilliant thanks for posting. Looks like the Scottish Equalities Minister has a lot more sense and balance than Penny Mordaunt.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 24/04/2019 08:18

This is a really good letter, and great to see some MSPs showing some courage here

youllhavehadyourtea · 24/04/2019 08:22

Bloody hell! My MP ( who was a science teacher in her previous life) the one who sent me a brush off 'the debate is transphobic' email is a signatory!!

I resigned my membership of the SNP after she sent me that email.

Astonished!

ImGenderfree · 24/04/2019 08:23

Thanl god for that - hopefully this can be looked at fro all angles.

littlbrowndog · 24/04/2019 08:33

💪

TurboTeddy · 24/04/2019 08:34

Now if only our representatives at Westminster could stop behaving like invertebrates we might be able to rationally discuss any proposed changes to the GRA.

titchy · 24/04/2019 08:39

I resigned my membership of the SNP after she sent me that email.

Get back in touch and ask her what changed her mind - if there's a membership at stake she might answer!

Charley50 · 24/04/2019 08:42

That's brilliant! Calm and reasoned at last.

youllhavehadyourtea · 24/04/2019 08:42

Get back in touch and ask her what changed her mind - if there's a membership at stake she might answer!

Good idea. I'll do that.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 24/04/2019 08:43

Some very sensible names on that list too. I knew Kenneth Gibson felt that way, it was clear from the questions he was asking in the census committee that he had a very good understanding of the issues.

The more people that speak out, the easier it is for other people to do it too. We are actually very, very close now to the 'critical mass' needed.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 24/04/2019 08:45

I resigned my membership of the SNP after she sent me that email.

You should tell her this when you get in touch, and say you are very pleased to see that she has reconsidered her position.

ChattyLion · 24/04/2019 08:59

Go Scotland!!! Smile
Quite right too. Let’s have the debate calmly and informatively and then see what policy changes, if any, are needed.

BlackForestCake · 24/04/2019 09:04

The wall of #nodebate is breaking down.

Genderfreelass · 24/04/2019 09:14

This is fantastic news! The SNP might even get my anti indy vote if they stop this nonsense. Surprised Gillian Martins name is not on it she was one of the email leak group.

boatyardblues · 24/04/2019 09:14

Well done Joan & colleagues - an open debate about the wider impact of these reforms is sorely needed. Thank you all!

ScrimshawTheSecond · 24/04/2019 09:16

holy moly!

Comments are interesting. Pretty much demonstrate how so many people see this as an issue affecting trans people only - I don't think the message has got through that everyone is potentially affected.

Anyway, heartening news, dare we hope for an open, careful, detailed debate? I'd honestly love to hear any rational, thoughtful arguments in favour of Self ID. I've not seen any yet, just the 'bigot, transphobe' line in response to any and all questions.

Come on, SNP. If you can prove you can handle contentious debate like adults, and not just throw soundbites to the media for the sake of looking 'progressive', you may yet get my vote.

Callmejudith · 24/04/2019 09:53

This is bloody brilliant

AncientLights · 24/04/2019 10:06

I immerse myself in trans bollox, have done for over a year now, and am astonished that so many people can't see the wide-ranging implications of it. They still, like so many commentators on the article, think it will affect a few people and the government should have better things to do.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 24/04/2019 14:23

Everyone in Scotland who's written to MSPs now needs to contact them to ask them to back this, esp if they belong to another party. Some might use it as excuse to bash SNP - worth reminding them that women from all parties oppose this and will vote!

Daughterofmabel · 24/04/2019 14:27

excellent news.

Daughterofmabel · 24/04/2019 14:28

good idea Alice

SpeakUpXXWomen · 24/04/2019 14:47

I like that the comments section is not only having none of it but educating too!

I happen to know of a conservative who agrees but is yet to speak out, let's hope this is the start of a landslide that picks up all the parties on its way. If the SNP members can prove that resistance is not futile then there is hope for logic yet.

These are our employees, they are positioned and paid for by us, we have to bloody well keep on at them to represent us and do their job.

www.theyworkforyou.com

More mailbag messages at the ready, grass roots is working!

Gingerkittykat · 24/04/2019 14:50

It's been clear from all the comments on the articles from yesterday about the self ID in Glasgow and now today that the vast majority of people in Scotland don't want self ID. I wonder if this means we are all TERFs, including the men?

youllhavehadyourtea · 25/04/2019 08:30

The SNP has always had a problem with women.

Turning into a Men's Rights party doesn't make them appealing to the female voter.

They need to rethink. Fast.