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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is the Surgical World Ready for Adolescent Gender Surgery?

34 replies

welshgendercrit · 21/04/2019 18:19

... is the title of a recent TEDx talk by Dr Tandy Aye, a paediatric endocrinologist at Stanford Children’s Health and the Medical Director of their Paediatric and Adolescent Gender Clinic.

To watch an accredited medical professional calmly stating that a young male patient's reproductive capacity had been 'eliminated' (her word) and therefore his undeveloped testes should be removed like any other organ that has no use, appalled me more than I can say.

If I still needed any confirmation that by being gender-critical I'm on the right side of history, this video has provided it. What a world we live in... Sad

OP posts:
ChattyLion · 22/04/2019 02:15

Also: regarding the House of Commons Health Select Committee Enquiry that we will need to look into all this as a first step to convincing MPs in general that they may need to legislate on this. We can contact them to ask that they look at this. The really great thing about a Select committee is that it will look at the evidence from all sides:

Here’s how the Commons Health and Social care Select committee works:
www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/health-and-social-care-committee/role/

Sarah Wollaston MP (she’s in the new Independent party) is the committee Chair, she is a GP herself. Good start. www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/health-and-social-care-committee/membership/

Select committees need some evidence to start their enquiries- whether evidence of concerning issues or evidence of public concern. We have loads of both of that on FWR threads. TRAs have no evidence, that is why it’s always all #nodebate

So if parents like us just email the committee a few points that we think are important to the committee- copying in our own MPs - and whether or not we are gender critical or we think that affirmation-only is the way to go, then it can all be heard and looked at in the open. Nobody can argue against that and it’s completely unacceptable that all these questions have been raised and have not been looked into by an impartial body.

I am really concerned at the reports about the UK transitioning children and I also want mental health support to be much better for young people in general with shorter waiting lists, including those with gender dysphoria and those who are confused or exploring gender (if they are also in distress). Evidence and political attention (like this committee) is how any issue gets to be prioritised in Parliament. So let’s just start contacting people asking them to look at this.

Anyone can email the Chair, any member MP (especially if it’s your own MP) and the secretariat of the committee directly who may pass these things on to the Chair to consider. Contact details below:

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/health-and-social-care-committee/contact-us/

Also worth a mention if you are writing: The Times cover splash also makes current NHS pilots such as this one in Manchester look very concerning: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3549494-Plans-for-radical-trans-health-service-model-to-be-rolled-out-across-England

The aim here in Manchester seems to be to take services for trans people out of the very specialist professional setting (gender identity clinics) and into much more general primary care level (GP care) in community settings. and services to be delivered by trans people themselves wherever possible.

This isn’t positive for adult patients at all. Because some adults over 25 are vulnerable and they still absolutely need neutrality, specialist expertise and experience in their medical and psychological care.

Why would these patients benefit from being offered treatments by generalists who don’t have the experience to scratch the surface of what is going on for the patient first?

Why would they benefit from the involvement of people who want to validate their own choices?

I think that competent adults can of course make their own choices including around long term blockers use, taking hormones and having surgery, but the system for adults needs a lot of tightening up too, to ensure that adults with underlying psychological needs are helped with those, rather than ‘affirmed’ as first approach.

OhHolyJesus · 22/04/2019 10:12

I couldn't even watch beyond 30 secs.

Thanks Chatty I'll send an email to the select committee.

ChattyLion · 22/04/2019 11:08

Thank you OhHolyJesus Smile

I am listening it to it now. It’s absolutely shocking. This doctor is arguing that under 18 year olds should be able to have sex reassignment surgery based on the number of years that they have lived ‘as’ the opposite sex.

Never mind how this could ever work in practice given the subjective question of what on earth ‘living as’ the opposite sex actually means anyway.... but where does the child’s capacity and consent fit into this? or the consent of their parents? What about where the best interests of the child (eg not to have their genitals removed or remodelled and removing their natural functionality) trump consent?
(Consent of either the parents or the consent of the child with sufficient capacity to give consent for themselves)

What about the child’s right to have an open future and not to close off their fundamental future options and physical capabilities?

And obviously in the case of children, for how many years they have been dressed as the opposite sex by their parents is completely in the hands of their parents, not in the hands of the child, so this would be a highly subjective criteria and wide open to abuse.

What about that case in the UK where a mum seemed to be leading the transing of her child to the extent the courts ordered the child to live with his other parent? metro.co.uk/2017/10/08/charity-advised-mum-to-force-her-son-7-to-live-as-a-girl-6984649/

A child in a situation where parents are determined to have ‘a trans child’ where are the safeguards for the child? How much worse would the ability to have early surgery aged under 18 make this for the child?

(By the way- ‘trans child’ is not a label or concept I believe in, because this is an adult description placed on the child. We don’t talk about ‘communist children’ or ‘fascist children’ do we? I think be more accurate to treat it more like eg ‘child being raised with Christian beliefs’ or ‘by Christian parents’ rather than eg like saying a child themselves is ‘a Christian child’ because these are external adult ideas being absorbed by a child). But anyway.

Even when you have a child who is utterly convinced that they do want surgery at an age under 18, where are the safeguards for the child? When we know that human brains don’t fully mature until 25 (when natural puberty has not been blocked).

FannyCann · 22/04/2019 12:38

Slight derail but I wish I had computer skills to make a small clip of her talking 6.06 - 6.22 when she talks about "Avery's testes have never developed, in fact she does not make any sperm" and "her reproductive capability to be a biological parent has been eliminated".
I would like that short clip to spread everywhere. A bit like the notorious clip of a certain person laughing at her child's undeveloped genitalia which required more imaginative surgery than the usual.

Also 11.25 - 11.55 where she talks about surgeons thinking of the new techniques required to deal with undeveloped genital tissue and lack of working material as "creations". It doesn't get more horrifying or mad than that. It needs a Posie style campaign of projecting those clips at high volume in public spaces like outside the Tavistock clinic.

Anyone with the skills our there or point me to the app I need?

borntobequiet · 22/04/2019 12:46

That’s one of the creepiest, nastiest things I’ve ever viewed.

OldCrone · 22/04/2019 13:07

That’s one of the creepiest, nastiest things I’ve ever viewed.

It is truly horrifying. And this person is a doctor, allowed to work with vulnerable children.

I've no idea how to do what you suggest, FannyCann, but I'd also like to put together the several times she says 'a girl with a penis', in that oddly triumphant but robotic way, with the weird hand gestures.

ChattyLion · 22/04/2019 14:13

It is super creepy and also it’s possibly the worst type of abusive lying to kids that I can think of. Humans can’t transition to the opposite sex. That is physically impossible.
Everyone should be able to dress like and ‘be’ who they are if that’s what they need to do and if they are still unhappy about it seek professional help. But they shouldn’t be sold a lie.

WeaselsRising · 22/04/2019 15:17

I only watched half of it. It's quite horrifying. "Their daughter with a penis.." GIRLS DONT HAVE A PENIS!!

How do we stop this madness?

GabrielleNelson · 23/04/2019 20:01

This is absolute insanity. How can other medical professionals stand by and let this happen?

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