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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SNP apparently divided over self ID

19 replies

Daughterofmabel · 21/04/2019 09:14

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588016.snp-cabinet-in-deadlock-over-gender-recognition-reforms-amid-claims-of-growing-transphobia-problem/

Although it is heartening to hear there are disenting voices and this is causing a delay I dislike these being called transphobic. Also the comparison with the equal marriage bill is ridiculous. Notice also the quote from Stonewall Scotland about the stress caused to trans people but nothing about the stress caused to women or any
quotes from Scottish Womens campaign group. Very biased reporting I feel.

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Daughterofmabel · 21/04/2019 09:14

Oops sorry. Can someone do a clicky link please. Thanks

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Tunnockswafer · 21/04/2019 09:15

I resigned my membership over this so would be nice if there is some challenge within the party

Daughterofmabel · 21/04/2019 09:19

Agreed. Joan McAlpine still getting a hard time though and I wish more msps would stand wirh her.

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SimplyMonstrous · 21/04/2019 09:45

Brilliant supportive article from Susan Dalgety in yesterday’s Scotsman
www.scotsman.com/trans-gender-politics-puts-very-basis-of-feminism-at-risk-susan-dalgety-1-4911698

Daughterofmabel · 21/04/2019 09:48

Thanks needmoresleep
simply Yes I saw that one. Much better!

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Tunnockswafer · 21/04/2019 09:56

when people say they are talking about legitimate questions, the questions they are asking are often ones to which the answers are already there, but they haven't looked for them or have dismissed them (Fiona Smith, in that article)
Wouldn’t it be great if she could come on here and direct us to the answers to the questions being asked over and over - what is a woman, for a start, and why women and girls aren’t entitled to single sex spaces for privacy and safety.

Daughterofmabel · 21/04/2019 10:22

Yes it would Tunnocks
Mind you most of the msps Ive met, with the exception of a couple cant answer those questions without a lot of waffle.

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Needmoresleep · 21/04/2019 11:14

Isn’t Fiona Smith doing exactly what she is accusing others of.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/04/2019 11:34

I posted this on a other thread;

www.holyrood.com/articles/comment/trans-rights-and-menopause

It's hopeful that at least some people in Scotland are at least thinking about these issues.

Cismyfatarse1 · 21/04/2019 11:47

Read the comments on that Herald piece.

Brian! Repeating the same thing over and over again. Then suggesting dissent is ignorance and then moaning about ticket prices to hear women's views.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 21/04/2019 14:08

amid claims the party is developing a problem with transphobia. = 'some MPs are concerned about womens rights being eroded.

Its always the transphobia yell isn't it, rather than just acknowledging the massive massive clash of rights here. Instead just shout transphobe at any woman (or man, but it seems to be mainly women, men are oddly silent) who thinks a bit about this and decides that no, male people should not have womens rghts, as that means womens rights don't exist anymore.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 21/04/2019 14:09

And its fuck all like the equal marriage bill. This pretending its the same as gay rights pisses me right off. Gay people weren't trying to take rights from another group. And they certainly didn't (that I saw anyway) regularly threaten rape and violence to those who were against it.

Daughterofmabel · 21/04/2019 15:29

Well put thegoalis

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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 21/04/2019 16:36

Bit sweary though, and apparently swearing means you are being aggresive. But..I am just a sweary person Grin

Erythronium · 21/04/2019 18:45

Gives me hope for the SNP if there is resistance to self-ID. Disgusting that the resistance is being called "transphobia" however.

AnyOldPrion · 21/04/2019 20:19

”Brian! Repeating the same thing over and over again.”

And deliberately ignoring the second part of the initial response that was made to him: that

“The organisations you refer to are all funded by the Scottish govt and a condition if their funding is that they support self ID if gender.”

Obviously if their funding depends on supporting self-ID, they’re not going to say anything against it. Plus the obvious fact that if an organisation has to support self-ID for some time, then anyone who disagrees has no chance of rising to the top.

So anyone at the top will support self-ID. And they’ll be damn sure to make it known to all staff, that anyone who speaks out is likely to lose their job.

Anyway... another fucking man telling us we’re ignoring facts while he sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts the same moot point at us over and over....

Angry

I need a “steam coming out of my ears” icon, but there isn’t one.

theOtherPamAyres · 21/04/2019 20:48

When the Scottish Government consulted the public over reforming the GRA, it received a miserable 17,500 responses. There wasn't much publicity given to it at the time and only those in the know spread the word.

The Scottish Governement also took evidence from publicly funded women's organisations who all said that service providers and users were happy with 'inclusive' services. They have never produced their evidence for public viewing. More puzzling is the fact that their findings fly in the face of two previous research projects showing 99% and 95% required single sex provision.

Since the consultation, the political landscape has changed. Public consciousness has been raised about what is at stake. Women have organised to resist the reforms. MSP's like Joan McAlpine have interrogated the data, taken evidence from people who were excluded before and questioned Ministers about such things as recording crime by gender rather than sex. She, unlike her colleagues, was paying attention to the implications of reform.

So now the SNP is in a bind. The consultation and oral evidence said one thing - go ahead, it's progressive, popular, everything will be fine and nothing is at stake. The resistance and alternative narratives coming from public opinion and the new women's organisations points to electoral dangers ahead.

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