Please add your voice - Scottish Minister invites comments

[theOtherPamAyres]

It's not enough to tag ministers into your Twitter conversation. It's not enough to air our anger and frustration on MN. Sometimes we should grab an opportunity to show how many women feel strongly about this.

The Fairer Scotland/Trangender Equality Minister S. Somerville invites you to comment on her analysis of women's concerns.

For my part I think she's got it wrong. It's not just a case of 'fear of violent men' - although that comes into the equation. There's a ton of issues around safeguarding, privacy, dignity, the definition of women and so on. All of us come from different perspectives (mine is heavily towards the role of government in coercing women to budge up and give up rights).

I would ask you to consider replying to the Minister, even if you aren't in Scotland. A failure to respond in sufficient numbers will look as though the trans thing is opposed by a transphobic minority.

Please. Do it for Joan mcAlpine, me, you, and every woman out there.

blogs.gov.scot/fairer-scotland/2019/04/18/transgender-rights-and-equality/

Done. That was a looooooong one. I feel better.

Will try to do this over Easter.

I replied and I see that my comment is still awaiting moderation (and may be for some years). Were we meant to comment, or reply in some other way?

Victoria I plan to email her, not sure what - if anything - will happen to a blog comment.

Contact details for Shirley-Anne Somerville here:

www.parliament.scot/msps/currentmsps/99254.aspx

Yes, I think I’ll email her too. I ate a whole packet of mini cream eggs angrily writing my response, so don’t want it to fall into a pit of unread darkness.

It makes me so angry that the roll back of women’s rights is being led to such an extent by.....women. Do they see the truth and not care? Because political advancement is all that matters? Or is it the case that they genuinely can’t see it?

Do politicians perhaps not actually think very much, at all?

I wondered about anti women movements in previous centuries, the seventeenth century witch craze for instance. Did women participate eagerly in that, too? ‘Burn the witch, sisters’?

Vis-a-vis the especial reference to young people. I have no doubt there are many vulnerable young people caught up in this. But the people who are loudly insisting on self-ID are largely older males, who are very likely at no more risk than any other man in a male space.

The troubled young need help. Not self-ID.

Done. PUUULL!

Did a very long response with @ScrimshawTheSecond as a helpful framework for all I wanted to say. I adapted though using personal experience from work and links and quotes to newspaper articles and studies especially the prison fiasco and sporting organisations decisions.

Cheers, Becles, glad it was useful. I also added:

Statistics and data - especially healthcare and crime - risk being skewed. This could have real effects on society - and I imagine probably not good ones.

Good idea to use examples, too. I meant to add a few 'this never happens'.

Thanks for this. I will comment over the weekend. Interesting that a lot of you have commented and when I read it (an hour or so ago) there were no comments showing.

I emailed her.

I emailed also,m rather than commenting.

I'm still searching for the calm to write a response that doesn't begin 'oh for God's sake you stupid woman'.

And yes to the have women always worked against women in these oppressive movements. It's quite interesting to have a quick flick through the MiL threads on the other boards with that in mind. You'll always find women posters delighted to tell other women to suck it up, shut up, be doormats, smile through their abuse - even on dv threads you'll find some woman telling the abused that she should be understanding and kind, and it wasn't that bad/she probably asked for it.

Some are addicted to the reinforcement they get from the males in their lives when they're good girls, and have a (deluded) belief that whatever happens to other women while they facilitate men's wishes, at least they're protected and it's not happening to them. Some see their personal role and value entirely in being indispensable and powerful through serving and promoting the superiority of the males in their lives. Some have suffered through abuse and are bitter, angry and determined not to allow younger women escape what they were not allowed to, because it would make them face their own trauma in ways they can't process. Some see it as 'their turn' to abuse and have power over other women in the way that older women abused them in the name of getting their recognition and position of power as the lead provider/servicer of the males in their life. Some have an open and really quite sadistic enjoyment of seeing other women suffer and wanting them to suffer more, quietly, in silence, showing outward submission.

We live in a patriarchy, in a political situation where women have nothing like equal political representation. The few women who have made it to MP and ministerial positions have not been promoted and allowed to get there by saying or believing things that annoy or de centre men.

TL:DR version: when men are the gatekeepers of power, women are forced to do whatever they can to grab crumbs of it.

Popped back to comment on this, something I saw on Twitter that made sense to me.

”Just as the First Minister has herself said in the past, I personally don’t feel conflict between my support for trans rights and my support for women’s rights.”

There is an absolute and clear conflict of interest written into the Equality Act. Most of the protected characteristics can be considered either separately or added together. For example there is no conflict between protection on religious grounds and sex.

The only two protections where there is a clear conflict are sex and gender identity. One inevitably trumps the other, and the direction in which that is applied makes a huge difference to the legal consequences.

I personally don’t feel conflict between my support for trans rights and my support for women’s rights

The only way to hang on to that particular piece of cognitive dissonance is to ignore the Equality Act and indulge yourself fully in the political and religious belief that TWAW, and that the 'sex' for which single sex provisions and sex based discrimination exists in law is for adult human females AND any males who want to be included. This is what Ms Mordaunt 'believes'.

It isn't a belief the laws were created for or confirm, and it breaches the right of people to freedom of belief. This cannot be pointed out often or loudly enough. Nor has this ever gone to a manifesto or been honestly and openly consulted on. Despite the amazing radicality and extremism involved.

Its lies hiding in plain sight. My disgust for the politicians involved knows no bounds. And they must realise the general public will never go along with this.

Shirley Anne Somerville is my local MSP, and it is in her constituency that Katie Dolatowski attacked female children in supermarket toilets, and was then placed in a women's hostel.

I'm trying to see it as a positive that they are actually asking women for their opinions, but got a feeling those opinions will be ignored.

Finished and sent in. Took a while.

I've replied. I tried to provide some usecases from the problems we have seen in US and Canada as well.

I don't know for certain, but been told that S-A is gender critical but doesn't think it's the right time to put her head above the parapet because of her ministerial responsibilities. In other words, doesn't have Joan McAlpine's bravery.

I think we have to give her as much justification as possible to be able to come out and state her position.

I think a few high profile SNP members have ducked back under cover now they have seen the flack Joan is getting.

It isn't a belief the laws were created for or confirm, and it breaches the right of people to freedom of belief. This cannot be pointed out often or loudly enough. Nor has this ever gone to a manifesto or been honestly and openly consulted on. Despite the amazing radicality and extremism involved.

THIS.

Thank you for this thread with excellent comments which I will be using as a resource. A couple of other things:

This other recent thread has some ideas, though it is thinking particularly about writing to schools teaching this topic uncritically. Hope other posters on this thread don’t mind if I add their points here but there were some very helpful points made: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3545657-School-are-marking-trans-day-of-visibility-and-have-sent-out-link-to-stonewall-article

• stats regarding trans people in the UK show they are very safe. -the Stonewall petition that Johnny Best set up explains the problems with uncritical adoption of 'gender identity' ideology and why many gay and lesbian people disagree with eg Stonewall's current agenda. It has over 8500 signatures.

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

• why should women be expected to support an ideology that tells us we’re either not a woman, or if we are, it's because we like our place in society?

-much of complying with the TRA dogma/ belief system/agenda involves women submitting to compelled speech/accepting an impingement on free speech.
-The Northern Irish ‘Gay Cake’ ruling established you cannot compel speech. Freedom of speech, Belief and expression are all covered under the Human Rights Act
-The NI ‘Gay Cake’ ruling (Ashers bakers) stated that Freedom of expression, as guaranteed by article 10 of the European convention on human rights, includes the right “not to express an opinion which one does not hold”.

More here on that case: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45789759

Easter weekend has come and gone. MSPs are in their offices.

And still there is no sign of any comments showing on the Ministers' webpage. However, the papers are reporting on the misgivings and concerns of MSP who feel that there will be unintended consequences of self i/d and that women and girls will be affected.

We can only keep the pressure up while we wait to see how the Minister responds. Or am I missing something? Are they just hoping that we will be reassured by a few murmurings of dissent within the SNP?

It took me ages, but I finally submitted my response via email rather than a blog comment. It was quite long. And despite my best efforts, it was still a bit of a rant. :-/