Woman loses job raising concerns about risk assessments and self id

[RunningWild12]

Really appalling and scary account of a woman losing her job in Scotland due to raising concerns around risk assessment and self id.

“voiced concerns to a colleague about, firstly, the adequacy of assessment of risk that had been carried out in relation to the proposal that 'self-identification' should become the only criterion for biological males to be legally considered females and, secondly, the wisdom of the guidance provided to schools by Education Scotland“

It’s here in full www.scottishreview.net/MMorrison476a.html

@OldCrone thank you. That is exactly what it is. I did feel that as the thread went on that people had lost sight of the wood for the trees

I do not know the woman but, from what she says, she is no small fry either:

I previously had worked in public services with decades of experience in children's social care and education. Questions of equalities and rights were matters of which I had long and well-respected experience in Scotland, the UK and Europe.

We do not know whether the Charity was influenced in its approach by any pressure, or any fear of impact on funding if it did not deal harshly with her "transgression".

What we DO know is TRAs have not been slow in the past to lobby charities aggressively and threaten funding e.g. pressuring venues booked for meetings about the GRA Consultation. Presumably the Charity was aware of how things might pan out if it did not react decisively?

We already know that someone connected with the Charity in some way was sufficiently affronted to report her words as a "contravening Equalities Legislation", so there was some "TRA-type" pressure within or close to the organisation.

We also know how aggressively TRAs can threaten, smear and harass individuals, women in particular, who voice legitimate concerns about both Self-ID and "watchful waiting" vs "affirmation".

I would not like to have been in her shoes, unsupported and isolated in that workplace.

To speak out publicly now, rather than hide away and lick her wounds, strikes me as courageous. She does not need to put her head over the parapet again and the impact on her personally and in terms of future employability is hardly likely to be positive.

I hope that if she needs support that she can be sure of finding it here and thank you too @Clitherow

I hope she sues their pants off.

@Floisme posts crossed in the ether! I agree 100% - and Charities are notorious for poor industrial relations practices too (research by unions, TUC, etc. not a personal opinion).

Why are all these so called charities in thrall?
Because it's the only way they can survive. They are not nice places to work and that poor woman has all my sympathy

Because they have funding withdrawn if they don't adhere to the Scot Gov policy on including transwomen.

Publishing that article was bloody heroic for a start. Poor woman.

Yup. There are zillions of charities out there now, many of them former public sector /government departments (sounds like Maggie came from that background). They don't get their funding by standing in the market square shaking a tin and they're all scrapping for the same poxy little pots of money.

And I doubt whether suing them would bring any satisfaction. If you won it would most likely close them down and the chances are you wouldn't see a penny.

I did feel that as the thread went on that people had lost sight of the wood for the trees

I was starting to feel the same way, which is why I asked for my posts to be deleted. I read through the thread again this morning and reminded myself what this thread is about. It's about a woman who was hounded out of her job for daring to speak the truth. We shouldn't be criticising her for not doing more.

Because they have funding withdrawn if they don't adhere to the Scot Gov policy on including transwomen.

Is there an official policy on this?

And there is no way in hell that I would trust my trade union to support anyone over this. They would probably hand you over to the lynch mob and sell tickets for the hanging.

Old Crone . Christina McKelvie is Equalities Minister.

Christina McKelvie: Applicants To the Equally Safe Violence Against Women And Girls Fund are required to provide their LBTI Inclusion Plan (or An GBTI Plan for organisations providing direct support to men) as part of their application. Applicants Without these plans in place are not considered

And there is no way in hell that I would trust my trade union to support anyone over this. They would probably hand you over to the lynch mob and sell tickets for the hanging.

Absoblinkinglutely

Molesmokes Perhaps due to a lack of insight into how traumatic and extraordinarily long-winded Disciplinary Procedures can be?

Yup, thirty years in HR so no idea.

I find your posts extraordinary. You have basically set out in massive detail instructions to women to just run away and hide rather than standing by your own words. This whole thread has been turned into a dream for anyone in support of eroding women's rights as people pile in to say running away scared is to be celebrated and standing up for yourself is pointless /hopeless /don't bother just run along now dear, have some flowers.

It's like the thread is being brigaded by trans activists coning women into shutting up. Other than an anonymous post about how they quit the moment someone said boo.

The woman concerned hasn't shut up. She has publicised what happened.

She did shut up at work. There was no case for dismissal. She was factually correct in what she had discussed at work. What she has actually done at that organisation is justify the complaints opinion that what she said has no substance as she wouldn't even stand by it herself. She's made it worse for anyone else at that employer to voice challenges to inaccurate policy.

She's now just complaining anonymously into a void about kangaroo courts when she hopped off long before any proper examination of the situation began. So yup, I'm not celebrating people that don't have the courage of their convictions and people here banging on about how corrupt and dishonest HR is in order to frighten people away from exercising their rights, well you are doing the genderists work for them.

Trousering

I don't think anyone has said people shouldn't fight against this. But I don't think we should be too critical of people who, for whatever reasons, don't feel able to do that themselves.

This was turning into an attack on someone who has done something, but was criticised for not doing more. I'd like to think I'd have fought it, but I have no idea if I'd really feel able to do that if I was faced with that situation in real life.

We should be concentrating on formulating ways of fighting what she was up against, not criticising her for not doing it on her own. How can we support other women who find themselves in this position? What can we do about the issues she talks about?

Trousering I would imagine that many people would agree with you in principle, I know I do, but we don't live in principle, we live in the real world. The point is that women falling foul of this totalitarian, irrational ideology have no one to support them. The Christian social worker who was sacked at least has the free support of the Christian Legal Centre and, even then, who can imagine the stress that she will have to endure. The woman in this case has no such support. How can any of us put ourselves in the place of these women and assess how their mental and physical health would stand up to the kind of pounding that they will take from a system stacked against them? Support from a bunch of anonymous women on the internet won't help when they wake up in the middle of the night alone and frightened as the whole foundation upon which they have built their worlds is brought into question.

Again with the ludicrous dramatisation.
The legal advice she got was that there was no case for dismissal. That's not a system stacked against them. That's her own legal advisor saying that if they could have dismissed they wouldn't have asked her to go.

She chose to walk away anyway.

Don't describe this as a system stacked against her, this is ridiculous fear mongering and simply frightens other people. I live in the real world too thanks and have been paid for managing dismissals for 30 years, I have eight on the go right now.
This is fear mongering. This woman obviously lost her bottle, she was obviously fine talking about this to colleagues but when put on the spot she was too fearful. This thread is now all about insisting the only option is to be fearful, with long posts about how you have absolutely no employment rights whatsoever.

I don't call this feminism. This board descends into weeping and wailing about how hopeless we all are. Absolutely appalling attitude. Take it to the spa day page and get yourselves some ear candles or hot rocks to recover.

This is what working life is like for many women whether you approve or not. She did as much as she felt able to do I thank her for it.

What are you doing in your workplace to make sure women's voices are heard on this issue, Trousering?

I am not saying we are hopeless, I am saying that women need support along the lines of the Christian Legal Centre and even then it won't be easy. It really doesn't help to say that individual women are weak or are prone to losing their bottle.

trousering a having been on the receiving end of a threat this week, this resonates with me. Can I ask, as HR:

(Very roughly) what sort of industry are you in?
How would you manage a woman in your company’s employ being reported like this?

I’m not HR, but I have had to deal with malicious reporting about one of my team. I had a complaint that he was ‘slacking off’ and leaving early. He was leaving early, because he was dealing with the Australian arm that week and was up in the wee small hours calling them, so I knew it was malicious. The venom behind it really made me uneasy - it was quite clear that the people were out to get him.

I think there is a significant chilling effect from cases like this. Women are becoming afraid to speak out. Having seen the reaction when I’ve said a couple of extremely calm and balanced things about women’s rights, I think I’d be afraid too, if I’m honest. I’m fairly sure that nothing I’ve ever said online is hateful, I have a gender critical boss, I work in a scientific industry that shows no sign of wokeness but still, the chill remains.

I think a few decent tribunals and rulings would be beneficial but I dont blame anyone for not wanting to go down that route

What are you doing in your workplace to make sure women's voices are heard on this issue, Trousering?

She's done a lot. I know her IRL.

We can't possibly know the detail of her personal circumstances other than what she alludes to in the article. Not everyone has the mental and financial resources to take on their employer.

And, as someone has said upthread, she HAS done something. She has written this article. And who knows: she may well have done other things behind the scenes as well.

Sending you love and solidarity, if you are reading this, Maggie.

I have posted on another thread about my current ongoing work with a London Russell Group University. I have consulted with the uni's external QC and Equality specialist solicitors about Stonewall led policies which misprepresent the equality act in particular the invitation to men cross dressing for erotic purposes to use sex segregated facilities.
The legal team were shocked to hear this was happening and were quite clear the law has to be followed, and agreed that men should not be entitled to come to work cross dressing for erotic purposes and that women are being expected to tolerate sexual harassment as a result.

I've now raised this with my male counterparts in HR, both older gay men by the way, who are also appalled. The D&I team are now changing policies back to the legal protected characteristics. There has been no argument against this.

I'm now taking on addressing the lack of Equality Analysis of the training and the training itself with the D&I team.

I am perfectly entitled to say I don't celebrate this account posted anonymously, the facts in there were on her side, she left for her own emotional reasons.

I do not condone posts here which deliberately deter women from standing by their words and expecting due process to apply to them.

What is the purpose of posts such as Molesmokes other than to frighten and intimidate? To ensure more women feel standing by their words is emotionally beyond them?

Bowl. My advice in that case would be to be as open as possible as to what was going on.

I would advise notifying the entire department from where the complaint originated that due to support commitments in different time zones normal service may have been slightly restricted but is now back to the usual high standard. With your thanks and the appreciation for the other depts bosses understanding.

It's all out in the open then and the conversation has been changed.