Train seats - is this me being sensitive?

[traumaforgotten]

I travel long distance on trains a lot - often where the seat reservations don't come through (Same company) and every time I notice there is a pattern where I am asked to move myself or my bag first when there is a wealth of empty seats next to men all around me. Not even with bags on the seats - it's like it's much easier to inconvenience me than to ask a guy to move his bag - every time

What I notice is that if there are vacant seats next to men and vacant seats next to women - both just as likely to have put their bags on the seat btw - people will ask the women first

Well apart from me everyone on this thread has said they would ask a woman first. I wouldn't. I would avoid drunks (of either sex) and people with babies or small children (of either sex) So the OP might want to take up the problem with all the posters who won't sit next to a man.

Often there will be people standing, and a man - often on the aisle seat and his bag in the window seat - but because he’s a man looking at his laptop or phone or with headphones in, he’ll be undisturbed

It's a crowded train- you could just ask.

I realise this isn't the same, but I was in our local very small Waitrose, and there is a pillar in the middle of the aisle, so you have to choose one side, I was looking at something on the shelf one side and there was a man looking at something on the other side, another man asked me to move- politely, but I did wonder why me and not the other man, because as far as I could see we were both as absorbed in our shopping.

In my experience seats next to slim women always go first.

Some wierd posts on this thread. Do people really think people are in the wrong for expecting to be able to sit in empty train seats? Yes, people seem more likely to sit next to women, from comments on this thread. I don't think they are doing so out of spite or to "inconvenience" the OP. If you don't want people sitting next to you, don't use public transport. And don't put your bag on a seat if you are going to take being asked to move it as a personal affront.

Why are you being a twat and deliberately goading people into asking you to move

I have so often been hassled by men on trains: being incessantly talked to when I’m trying to read, stared at, had them peer over my shoulder at my book, been aggressively chatted up, asked where I live, squashed (both accidentally and deliberately), sworn at, on occasion with terrifying aggression. I always prefer to sit by a woman now so yes, I could be one of the people asking you to move your bag.

Plus men are much more likely to listen to loud music on trains, to eat noisily, to be dirty, to be drunk, and to smell. I’ve had one watching porn on his phone, and in the days when lads’ mags were a thing, endless magazines with scantily clad girls in them being displayed under my nose.

I am sorry if this sounds anti-male. It reflects getting on for 25 years of train commuting experience. I have done extensive research into the general disgustingness of men on trains!

If I had to choose between sitting next to a normal sized man or woman it’d be the woman - smaller shoulders, won’t manspread etc.

OP - I know what you mean. I've had it before

I mean I would probably sit next to a woman first

Smaller, less likely to manspread, I guess I'd feel safer. Also less likely to do weird/innapropriate things or talk to me.

I don't really get what's the problem with having my bag on the seat if there's loads of empty seats. I only have it on the seat because it's easy to get stuff out of, and would be happy to move it to seat someone or when I see the seats filling up/someone coming. I have been PA asked to move it once before when there were empty double seats and plenty of men doing the sit in the aisle manoeuvre and this angers me. But jokes on them because I was happy to move it. I really see no difference in having a seat free for no reason or putting a bag on it until I see someone coming.

I was sat on a ferry t'other day with DW and the kids, occupying 4 of 6 seats. A woman came and sat with us almost immediately, despite many other seats empty. Initially it seemed madness to squish up next to wriggly kids when you don't need to.

I would never have twigged why before MN: the commute was going to be fairly full, better with a family than as a single woman sat alone next to an unknown bloke.

On aisle seats, I was once told (in previous job) by an accident investigator that they are much safer than window seats, and that that the safest seats in a train are the backward facing aeroplane style aisle seats, ie not with a table and other seats facing you. I used to always take that kind of seat for that reason. Probably best to if you possibly can.

Victoria P
Re tip about the safest place to sit in a train in the event of an accident.
Top tips travelling on a coach....
Always sit in an aisle seat and always, always keep your seatbelt on.
In a coach crash where it ends up on its side, the windows can give way and the roadway slides past like a 4ft wide cheese grater.
If you're sitting next to this window you put your hands down protect your face as this is happening and then the 3 people sitting in the same row land on top of you.
This is why relatively minor coach accidents can produce such horrendous facial and limb injuries.

I think everyone will always hassle the woman as there is likely to be any aggro is response. I always choose to sit next to a woman if I can.

I would rather sit next to a woman than a man.

I also, on the very rare occasion I have my bag on a seat, move it once it becomes clear the seats are getting less and less, as basically, why should anyone have to ask anyone to move a bag in the first place?!

I think everyone will always hassle the woman as there is likely to be any aggro is response

Asking someone to move their bag or to let you into the window seat isn't "hassling"

Moving when you're settled is a bit of a hassle. I didn't say "harrass" did I?

It's still not "hassling".

Are you just arguing definitions now lass? To what end? I said that I hassle women so if this is some sort of point you're making about men it's really not relevant.

In general I think a lot of people, looking at this thread and thinking about life generally, would rather be next to a woman than a man...

Meaning that men get more space for longer than women, in general,

Making them feel more out out when someone intrudes on 'their' space, possibly.

The different experience of the world is so intetesting.

Eg we were talking about who gets out of the way in pavement. Me abd DH. He was moaning that sometimes people don't see him at all and walk into him. So I observed. And I observed that everyone tends to get out of his way as he is v big chap. And he was pretty oblivious to who was around him, as they got out of his way. I pointed this out. He was v confused. My take away is, our size, perceived strength and generalisations about behaviour or possible behaviour make for really quite different experiences day to day in life.

The thing about men who know each other not wanting to sit next to each other is true as well, I've noticed that!

I usually avoid sitting next to people who look dodgy, dirty, drunk or annoying. Thereafter I will tend to choose the smallest and safest looking person to sit next to, who is usually female.

In general I think a lot of people, looking at this thread and thinking about life generally, would rather be next to a woman than a man...

Meaning that men get more space for longer than women, in general

It's interesting isn't it, it seems like such a little thing, but actually on my (irregular) hour and a half commute to London sometimes being sat next to a manspreader makes it quite difficult to work, typing on my laptop can be uncomfortable with arms squashed into my sides, and it's certainly not possible to spread out papers. In know I'm not entitled to any more space than the one seat I bought, but if I am being sat next to more because I'm a woman, it does mean there are likely to be more times I can't work easily than a man would experience. It feels petty to say it, but it does add up.

I said thatIhassle women so if this is some sort of point you're making about men it's really not relevant

You might find if you ask , men or women , you get a better response.

Guyliner You appear to be unaware of what "hassle" used as a verb means. Here's a couple of dictionary definitions

1:a heated often protracted argument:WRANGLEembroiling myself in a long, exasperatinghasslewith masons— S. J. Perelman

verb (used with object),has·sled,has·sling.

tobother,annoy,orharass.

You must have some interesting times on trains if you go around "hassling" people to move their bags.

"Hassle" is not a synonym of "ask"

but if I am being sat next to more because I'm a woman, it does mean there are likely to be more times I can't work easily than a man would experience. It feels petty to say it, but it does add up

If it is available I always go in First Class and the single seats so I don't have to sit next to anyone but tbh anyone who thinks they will just take over a shared table as their own office space is annoying.