Explaining why 'cis' is offensive

[dianebrewster]

Just mulling over the whole thing after a comment on the thread about the Irish author being mauled on Twitter......how do you explain why you reject 'cis' ? etc

I lived in Dublin for a year in 1981-2; went up to NI a lot, The Troubles still very much ongoing. I was doing field work for my MA in the Jewish community in Ireland. I was told a joke about a Jew being stopped by a gang of armed men at the border. Demanding to know who he was, was he Catholic or Protestant? He replied he was a Jew, "but are ye a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew?".

I was brought up Catholic (left it 30yrs ago) but had family members who very much saw the the world as Catholic vs Protestant - ie everyone who wasn't a Catholic fell into the category of Protestant.

The TRAs insisting on the trans / cis division, for me, is like asking an atheist whether they're a Catholic or Protestant. I reject the very basis of the original belief system. I cant be Catholic or Protestant because I'm not a Christian, I can't be trans or Cis because I don't believe in gender identity.

Does that make sense to anyone other than me? 🤨

I have no issue with gender identity. It is like a religion - important to its adherents. But, just like a religion, it should not be enforced upon people.

Insisting that I am 'cis' because I am not 'trans' or 'enbie' or whatever is exactly the same as "Protestant Jew or Catholic Jew?". And as diminishing and offensive to a gender-atheist as insisting that to a Jew that they must be either Catholic or Protestant.

2 reasons for me. 1. I am a woman. That needs no qualification. 2. Cis is defined as a person whose gender identity matches their sex.
I don’t feel I HAVE a gender identity.

Yes, yes it does. Changing language and meaning is a very clever tactic in any debate but where there is #nodebate and it's an instruction - that we just have to accept without question - then for me, language becomes even more important and central.

Cis, cisheteronormative, cisgender (and TERF)...it's all BS to me but not to others. As a white woman I would never use the N word when calling or referring to a black person, but if a black person used it for another black person and they weren't offended I would understand that. I never used to think this, I thought a word was either offensive or it wasn't but I can see now it's relative and nuanced.

What I find interesting and very frightening is the use of language in the Paedophile Handbook (in Dr Pankhurst's Twitter), where paedophiles use 'kind' from the German 'kinder' and also MAP/NOMAP on Twitter profiles. Sometimes by changing language or the meaning of a word to mean something else it is a subtle and effective way of changing opinions and perspectives, particularly on what is socially acceptable and what isn't.

On further reflection I think I'd simplify it down to something like

"telling me I must be Cis if I'm not Trans, is like telling an atheist they must be a Protestant if they're not a Catholic"

I like that analogy dianebrewster.

Saw this on twitter from Cinnamon Girl. Similar to NellieEllie’s post.

I am not a cis woman. I am a woman. I wholly respect & endorse the rights & protections of the trans community. My doing so does NOT contradict my rejection of this word. Acceptance of the word hinges on acceptance of an ideology which am I not legally bound to accept.

twitter.com/for29years/status/1117746686804283392?s=21

I think your analogy works perfectly.

I was trying to explain why 'cis' was bollocks to a colleague who had only this week come across it. It can be quite tricky even though it's perfectly straightforward to me.

If some women can be cis and some trans (e.g. male), then the definition of woman is not biological. Only people who're happy to redefine woman away from adult human female can accept cis.

When is a gull not a gull?

When it's a cis-tern.

(toilet humour, sorry..)

Yes, it's a good analogy and works alongside the concept of 'genderfree'.

Alex von Tunzelmann (@alexvtunzelmann) Tweeted:
Rejecting being described as “cis” is like rejecting being described as “tall” or “blonde”. You may describe yourself however you wish, but these adjectives have a descriptive use. Of course, what he means is “I consider myself the norm.” t.co/I3OckDnI3I twitter.com/alexvtunzelmann/status/1117759884370563072?s=17

The replies to this are golden. As are her further tweets. She then blocked everyone.

Genderfree = genderathiest ? Or is there a subtle difference? One accepts the ideology one rejects it?

No, I think agender is their term, which is fully buying into the ideology. I see genderfree as a rejection of gender in all its forms.

It's a catchier name than "gender atheist"

Love that, horse. Gave me a laugh.

I can't stand this whole cis business. This thread is helping me to articulate why.

Love that, horse. Gave me a laugh.

Thank you!

Sometimes in the face of this utter madness I feel the only way through is with humour.

Prick the silly balloon.

The term cis allows privileged white middle class men to claim oppression by females.

In the bs world of the Genderist that makes C.Jenner more oppressed than for eg Malala Yousafzai who should "check her cis-privileged"

Its a pile of utter wank.

And it allows lumpen AGP straight males to appropriate the identity, struggles and rights of the LGB community. Sickening.

This too Nottonight

Loving the term lumpen AGP btw!

There is only one type of woman, the adult human female kind, whether they be black, white, lesbian, straight, infertile or have birthed 8 children, fat, thin, the queen or a homeless woman begging on the street. If a person is not an adult human female then they‘re not a woman. End of. I see no reason or point in arguing otherwise with anybody who doesn’t already know this, because they’re clearly a bit thick or delusional, so all the explaining in the world will make no difference. People can believe whatever old guff they like but I want no part of it.

@terryleather please say you made that up as an example and CJ didn't actually say that?!

I agree with lots of what has been written here, and also I just don't want a term made up and foisted on me by people who are not even in the category. I don't want to "identify as" or be referred to as a made up word that I don't feel affinity with. Woman is perfectly adequate to describe me thanks, and any further descriptions as to my sex, gender or sexuality are none of anybody else's beeswax.

I'm feeling under indirect pressure at work to "come out" as cis, an ally, or whatever. I strongly support LGB+ rights (and I strongly support the rights of T but not at the expense of W) but to label myself an ally would imply that I'm heterosexual, and a) I'm not even sure what sexuality box I fit into, (and fuck boxes anyway) and b) it's none of anybody else's business!

phew. I needed that rant.

So I remain the only person "in the closet" at my work and I get to worry about people mistaking my choice not to literally wear a badge as perhaps being against LGBT+ when that's very much not true.

Laughed at that joke because I'm Northern Irish.

I suppose here Catholic/protestant has much more to it than religious beliefs or practice .. it encompasses identity, community and Irish nationalist Vs unionist.

His that correlated with the gender/cis analogy I don't know.

I find if offensive because its defining women in relation to trans women , a v small percentage of the population and not biologically women. It's forcing trans as though it is a norm or the norm and we have to be defined by that. No, were we're and you're transwomen.