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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans rant to local Labour agent. Help me not to feel like I have embarrassed myself!

78 replies

SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 15:49

Was contacted by the agent for a local Labour councillor candidate yesterday. I had offered to help with campaigning as the candidate is a great guy who has already done a lot for my small town.

I was limited in the help I could give because I rescinded my Labour Party membership over the throwing of women under the bus re all women shortlists.

Explained this to the agent who replied that "Labour have always been against discrimination" and they work with a transwoman, but would go away and find out more.

I then proceeded to.....well.....rant a bit, about Labour discriminating against women and Trans women with a GRC, by accepting anyone who "Identifies" as a woman onto the shortlists. I told him about Labour losing women's votes by supporting a policy which would allow "Barry with a beard and a leer in his eye" to bathe elderly women in care homes if he said he identified as a women, every bit as much as a genuine transwoman with a GRC. And if the woman refused = hate crime/transphobia.

I told him women weren't scared of genuine Trans women, but of perverts and chances using loopholes as a way to access women.

He didn't reply.

I now feel so embarrassed as he made me feel I was being transphobic Blush

Have I made a knob of myself and have I been transphobic?

OP posts:
cattycattycat · 15/04/2019 15:52

Well done! You have raised some awareness there. He will hopefully think about your concerns.

Melroses · 15/04/2019 15:52

If he goes away thinking you are a transphobe, and does not look into it further, he is not worth giving your time to.

Bluntness100 · 15/04/2019 15:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Trousering · 15/04/2019 15:54

What actually is transphobia? And why do you feel like you are?

I would suggest you are just feeling guilty for speaking your mind and standing up for yourself. Don't. You should do this. You are right. Men can't change sex. It's fine to talk about them in that context. We don't have to pretend everyone thinks they can.

sue51 · 15/04/2019 15:56

I and other women I know have stopped supporting Labour for their pro trans stance (Lilly pushed a few Kentish women over the edge) among other things. They need to be told as often as possible as they are not listening. You are not a knob and neither are you transphobic.

rosablue · 15/04/2019 15:57

He didn’t reply because there’s nothing he could say because you’re right. But to say that would mean agreeing with you that his beloved party is in the wrong and would prefer to throw women under a bus so that they can appear woke and show that to the world by supporting Barry with a beard who says they’re now a woman...

Hopefully you will have made him uncomfortable enough to investigate further and realise that you were right...

NottonightJosepheen · 15/04/2019 15:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 16:04

If he goes away thinking you are a transphobe, and does not look into it further, he is not worth giving your time to

I didnt think of it that way. That's true actually.

OP posts:
Original poster
SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 16:07

@Bluntness100

Sigh, I guess you want th mumsnet medal then

Okdoke here you go

Yeah, of course that's what I was thinking.......HmmConfused

That's a really rude thing to say. Do you feel better to have made someone else now feel a bit worse?

OP posts:
Original poster
SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 16:10

What actually is transphobia? And why do you feel like you are?

I suppose I knew I wasn't being transphobes, but was worried that he may have taken the "Barry with the beard" bit as transphobic instead of realising I was talking about Barry being a perv who "Identifies" as female for nefarious reasons.

Because the man didnt reply after my rant, I am embarrassed in case I came over as some strange women who writes complaints to the council in green ink.

OP posts:
Original poster
SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 16:14

Thanks to everyone else who has been reassuring. Not used to speaking up directly to people in positions of power about this. I generally just rant at home and sign petitions etc.

Felt weird poking my head over the parapet I guess.

OP posts:
MsMcWibble · 15/04/2019 16:17

I wouldn't worry about it. You did better than me. I had a guy from the lib dems round and gave him a total earful about not voting for anyone who wanted to send me to the gulag.
I actually shouted 'gulag' at him as he scurried back up the driveway.

SisterWendyBuckett · 15/04/2019 16:18

Well done OP for making your legitimate concerns known.

I had a similar 'rant' to a Lib Dem campaigner who had the misfortune to call at my door during the GRA consultation.

This bloke didn't get it at all and denied there was anything wrong anywhere. None of the high profile women in his party would throw women and girls under the bus. He made me feel I was being hysterical. Which I wasn't, of course.

In the end, I decided to keep him talking on the doorstep for as long as possible...it was raining after all, and I was standing in my nice dry porch.

TopBitchoftheWitches · 15/04/2019 16:23

I stopped my labour membership a couple of years ago because of this.

Every now and then they still email me, I have now told them numerous times that I will never vote again for a party that places a biological man in the position of women's officer and to stop contacting me.

RepealTheGRA · 15/04/2019 16:23

Who cares what he thought?

Honestly the people who should be embarrassed are the adults who think some women have penises and are proudly announcing they don’t know how babies are made. I’m embarrassed for them.

I personally don’t think GRC holders should be on AWS or bathing old ladies either and I’d’ve told him that.

I’m fully supportive of everybody being able to present themselves as they like (as long as they aren’t flashing) without fear of harassment or discrimination, but biology matters, some things are segregated by sex and I don’t have to engage in other people’s delusions.

MindTheMinotaur · 15/04/2019 16:29

I had a strong discussion with a Labour leaflet dropper. Eye-opener for him and he agreed with me on the obvious dangers.

Original poster
SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 16:30

@MsMcWibble (love the name)

I actually shouted 'gulag' at him as he scurried back up the driveway GrinGrin

That is fucking hilarious! (Why do Lib dems want to put you in a gulag?)

OP posts:
SarahTancredi · 15/04/2019 16:31

He was quiet cos there was nothing he could say . Everything you said was true. All that's left when that happens is accusations you are phobic or whatever and want people to die in a fire

If there were answers hed have given them.

morningtoncrescent62 · 15/04/2019 16:36

Well done, OP. I'd have felt the same. I've only had a few real life conversations with TRA supporters, and each time I feel like I've made an idiot of myself and ended up sounding transphobic. Some of the posters on here are really good at holding their ground and putting things clearly, robustly and concisely. I'm not particularly good at that in writing and even worse when I'm speaking. I now spend quite a lot of time on here so I'm hoping I'll get more articulate as I read, learn and become more confident in my views and know the evidence. But it's difficult and I feel for you. It sounds like you did really well and I can't see anything transphobic in what you said.

Original poster
SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 16:36

I’m fully supportive of everybody being able to present themselves as they like (as long as they aren’t flashing) without fear of harassment or discrimination, but biology matters, some things are segregated by sex and I don’t have to engage in other people’s delusions

Those are my exact feelings too. I don't mind a Transwoman without a penis and with a GRC bathing my mum. Mostly because I think they have put in loads of time and effort to achieve the GRC and will have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria (I think?).

I feel a bit torn about a Trans woman who still has a penis bathing my mum.

OP posts:
SirVixofVixHall · 15/04/2019 16:37

I think the framing of trans as “genuine” or not, isn’t very helpful. I see it a lot on the boards. What women seem to mean is that they are not afraid of non predatory transwomen, or possibly transsexuals, yet being trans is not an automatic sign of virtue. I think it is unlikely that homosexual transwomen are often a threat to women, but that is a very small minority of transwomen now.
Male people are a threat to female people. We don’t let male people into all-female space for a reason, and that reason does not change because of someone’s “identity”.

GCAcademic · 15/04/2019 16:39

I tend to think a strategy of asking a series of concerned questions is more effective than ranting. This forces people to recognise and think about the issues rather than being able to instantly dismiss you as a transphobe. For every answer they give you, ask a follow up question. The “logic” behind transactivism collapses pretty quickly under questioning.

Original poster
SuePerbly · 15/04/2019 16:41

@MorningtonCrescent62

Some of the posters on here are really good at holding their ground and putting things clearly, robustly and concisely. I'm not particularly good at that in writing and even worse when I'm speaking

Exactly the same here!

OP posts:
RepealTheGRA · 15/04/2019 16:44

Those are my exact feelings too. I don't mind a Transwoman without a penis and with a GRC bathing my mum. Mostly because I think they have put in loads of time and effort to achieve the GRC and will have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria (I think?)

How does your Mum feel about it?

I don’t want a transwoman with a GRC bathing me, they’re still male. While a lot of them are completely harmless, there’s problems with them exchanging online what to say to get a diagnosis of GD regardless of whether they have it or not, they system is being gamed and a GRC is no proof that an individual doesn’t have AGP. The only enforceable and sane solution is segregation on biological sex and to stop allowing birth certificates to be falsified.

Christine Burns has a GRC.

Mrskeats · 15/04/2019 16:46

Good for you op. If a Labour candidate knocks on my door he/she will get similar.
I’ve given up my membership because of this and Labour’s general hopelessness lately.