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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gina Rippon: no such thing as sex?

10 replies

Victoriapestis01 · 14/04/2019 23:24

I haven’t read Gina Rippon’s book, but having watched her on YouTube (the RI talk), I’m a bit concerned about her message and surprised she is so favourably referred to in FWR.

After a lot of interesting discussion in the talk about brain plasticity and permeability, the social and educational environment, and the shortcomings of neuroimaging, she seems suddenly to leap to the conclusion that there is probably no such thing as sex at all, or not really much in terms of biological sex distinctions, and that instead of dividing ourselves into men and women, we just need to see ourselves as individuals, for unspecified purposes (sport? changing rooms? prisons?)

I suspect that she may have just meant this to apply to brains, not biological sex generally, since (a) nothing whatsoever in her talk about brain function justified dismissing the concepts of biological sex in terms of chromosomes, genitalia and reproductive function, and (b) she was also clearly interested in comparative male/female achievement data, and let’s face it if there is no such thing as biological sex this can’t be measured.

But this was not at all clear : and in fact she seems at a couple of points to nod favourably to ideas that there are no biological sex differences in terms of chromosomes or genitalia.

I think this is probably why she’s being pushed by the Guardian: that she is providing an argument that strongly militates against dividing people by biological sex in any capacity, including sports and changing rooms. So now I’m loath to buy her book. Has anyone else had the same reaction to her? Is this the conclusion of her book, also? Or was it just a case of a poorly concluded talk?

OP posts:
Barracker · 14/04/2019 23:40

Can you link please?

Victoriapestis01 · 14/04/2019 23:40

Aargh! Will try.

OP posts:
Victoriapestis01 · 14/04/2019 23:44

Not worked that out. I’m so sorry. (Not sure how to link to particular talk on YouTube? Maybe you can’t on a tablet?)
The talk is called How neurononsense keeps women in their place. It is on YouTube.
It was going well until the end.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 15/04/2019 00:13

Is this the one?

OldCrone · 15/04/2019 01:08

she seems at a couple of points to nod favourably to ideas that there are no biological sex differences in terms of chromosomes or genitalia.

I've watched this now, and there is a point towards the end where she mentions an article about this. At this point she's strayed out of her area of expertise, and doesn't seem very sure about what she's saying.

This is the article she was talking about.
www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

The article is about DSDs (intersex conditions). I'm not sure why she mentioned this, as it seems totally irrelevant to brain differences. She seemed to be using it to say it wasn't so easy to categorise people as male or female, even though those who don't have XX or XY chromosomes are not a third sex, or an in-between sex - they're still male or female. I don't think she's trying to say there is no such thing as biological sex, though - I'm sure she understands how human reproduction works.

Victoriapestis01 · 15/04/2019 09:46

Yes, that’s the one. And yes, it’s the end that worried me.

I imagined Adrian Harrop watching it: first rage at the idea there’s no such thing as a pretty pink brain, followed by phew! No need for separate toilets since we’re all the same sex. (Which obviously is inconsistent because if we’re all the same sex why do men want to come into our toilets? But consistency is not a hall mark of tra thinking.)

Thanks very much for link to paper. I wish someone with knowledge of dsd would contact Gina- any possibility of this?

OP posts:
OldCrone · 15/04/2019 10:35

I first saw Gina Rippon on this programme a couple of years ago

Transgender Kids - who knows best

She's on at about 45:30, only for a couple of minutes, but she says that the transgender movement is reinforcing gender stereotypes. I have her to thank for putting into words exactly why I was so uncomfortable with the idea of transgender kids (although I don't know why I hadn't figured that out for myself).

She's not a biology denier - I'm fairly certain the bit about the Nature article in her talk was just a bit clumsy, and an unwise departure into an area outside her expertise.

If you start the video a bit early, or let it run, you'll be treated to the opinions of a transman who has some quite odd ideas about sex and gender.

NatureWoman · 15/04/2019 10:38

The piece linked above IS NOT a peer-reviewed Nature article. It's an opinion piece by a journalist.

OldCrone · 15/04/2019 11:04

NatureWoman
I hadn't noticed that - journal = Nature, fully referenced article - the only clues are that it says 'news feature' at the top, and the author is described as a journalist when you get right to the end.

Gina Rippon was certainly talking about it as though it was a peer reviewed paper. Surely, as a working scientist, she knows the difference, and in the talk she was criticising newspaper articles and books where the authors had only read abstracts and/or not properly understood what they were talking about. It's not very impressive that she then managed to make the same mistake herself.

PencilsInSpace · 15/04/2019 12:18

Q & A session here:

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