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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Boyne's new book 'My brother's name is Jessica'.

428 replies

Helmetbymidnight · 14/04/2019 21:48

John Boyne (author of boy in the striped pajamas) is bringing out a book called My brother's name is Jessica, and this is simply not acceptable, apparently.

He's written an article here:

www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/john-boyne-why-i-support-trans-rights-but-reject-the-word-cis-1.3843005?fbclid=IwAR0WqWp2a3dIu-4pxDKS7k9XQO5lZR4PCKh_AFhAeTRoZMm0TmuiCBvoUjQ

Doc and co are going nuts at him. Not as nuts as they would if it was written by a straight woman, I imagine, but even so.

It's about time the world of books got stuck into this debate. They've been very slow on this one.

OP posts:
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InionEile · 16/04/2019 01:38

Wow, Boyne really is off Twitter. He must have received an absolute deluge of hate tweeting and messages. I wonder if it's permanent or if he's just taking a break. Most popular authors are required to have social media engagement as part of their book marketing, especially YA authors.

BettyDuMonde · 16/04/2019 07:19

I hope Jonny Best or similar from the GC men camp reaches out to him.
It’s shit to be under a pile on, and I can’t imagine anyone from the trans activist side is being supportive.

Wonder how much abuse his publisher/agent have gotten?

Propertywoes · 16/04/2019 07:46

Poor bloke. He had no idea what he was getting into.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/04/2019 07:49

Saw bandwagon
Jumped on bandwagon
Realised bandwagon was catering out of control and full of angry baboons

Moral of the tail (geddit?) - always inspect your bandwagon.

Lamaha · 16/04/2019 08:03

Didn't read any criticism about the boy in the striped pyjamas that it should only be written by a German or a Holocaust survivor or should centre the child in the concentration camp etc.

I did; this one, which I mentioned in my post above. This reviewer doesn't actually say that in so many words in the review itself but in the long comment thread. As a Holocaust survivor himself, he disdains and rejects all Holocaust fiction, with the notable exception of Sophie's Choice. But I can understand that. It was something so horrific, so utterly heinous, it's almost taking the piss to exploit it for entertainment ends, which is basically what Holocaust novelists do. Misgendering a transperson is just not on the same level of disrespect, , though TRA's would have you believe it is so. Hurting feelz on the same level as actual murder: I don't think so.

www.goodreads.com/review/show/646557556?book_show_action=true&from_review_page=1

Lamaha · 16/04/2019 08:16

As for the title: a book title has to be somehow engaging, interesting, something to make people pay attention. It's all marketing. And the publisher usually chooses the title, not the author, just as it's the newspaper who titles and article, not the journalist.

A book called My Sister's name is Jessica would never sell.

However, we can be sure that this controversy will sell books like hot cakes. Books don't get withdrawn because feelings are hurt; there has to be serious libel or similar for that to happen. The publishers will be rubbing their hands in glee at the attention. Another bestseller coming up.

I don't feel sorry for the author though. He's a good guy who wanders into hot topics without full comprehension; thought he was being really understanding and allying and woke and this is the thanks he gets.
Hopefully on reflection a little sunlight will enter his brain.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 16/04/2019 08:19

Fiction has the way of moving the human spirit in a way that fact often fails too.
Humans are strange like that.

So I don't see it as entertaining, more as a learning tool.
TRAs complete lack of empathy makes them blind to this. Any rational person would be happy to have a sympathetic, presumably engaging, book written about their cause.

If anyone was in any doubt about how unhinged this movement is, just a quick look at this story and their treatment of John Boyle says it all.

Pinkarsedfly · 16/04/2019 08:21

Oh, I am enjoying this.

Fazackerley · 16/04/2019 08:31

It's a shame his Twitter has gone. Would have been better to leave it to demonstrate the crazy.

The posters saying that the misgendering in the title made them cry and frightened for their lives. WTAF.

BettyDuMonde · 16/04/2019 08:38

Books don't get withdrawn because feelings are hurt; there has to be serious libel or similar for that to happen

Lamaha, I think you might’ve under estimated the crazy that it currently happening in Young Adult Fiction!

www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/01/young-adult-author-cancels-own-novel-after-race-controversy

Fazackerley · 16/04/2019 08:40

I bet it will be withdrawn. The menz have spoken.

Lamaha · 16/04/2019 08:40

Fiction has the way of moving the human spirit in a way that fact often fails too.

So I don't see it as entertaining, more as a learning tool.

As a novelist myself, who writes about controversial subjects and characters far outside my own experience, I absolutely agree. But I do believe that in some specific cases, such as Holocaust literature, altering the facts to make them less shocking, more palatable, to the reading public does feel like making them entertaining -- such as superimposing a sappy love store over horrific mass murder and thus making the latter seem just an unpleasant background (this has happened). Nobody learns from that.

Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 08:42

As for the title: a book title has to be somehow engaging, interesting, something to make people pay attention. It's all marketing. And the publisher usually chooses the title, not the author, just as it's the newspaper who titles and article, not the journalist.

A book called My Sister's name is Jessica would never sell.

My thoughts exactly. These people are both incredibly self centred and none too bright, though.

Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 08:43

The posters saying that the misgendering in the title made them cry and frightened for their lives. WTAF.

FFS.

BettyDuMonde · 16/04/2019 08:53

I thought it was an interesting premise for a book (as would one written from a sister* or a partner’s point of view, fiction or autobiography) and could well have contributed to sympathetic understanding for trans people in general, content dependent.

Activists with sense would’ve demanded advance copies be sent to organisations such as TELI or Press for Change, or Stonewall, who could then start legal action if necessary.

Actually, that would probably be a reasonable way to for the publishers to proceed - get some of the ‘elder statesmen’ of the trans community to endorse it - even if that means paying a decent fee to their organisation.

‘Approved by ....’ stickers would get the title in book stores.

*I can never remember where I found the statistic but a lot of trans kids are twins - that is a curious situation worth exploring.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/04/2019 08:56

The posters saying that the misgendering in the title made them cry and frightened for their lives. WTAF.

Mentally unstable men should really not be driving this clown car. I’m guessing it was the men?

Fazackerley · 16/04/2019 08:58

In that interview he says that the brother is cruel to Jessica.

What makes me laugh is the casual way he dismisses Glinner and emphasises the need for 'nuance' from the women, then writes a book which rides roughshod over everything the TRAs demand Grin and then can't believe it when they don't fawn Grin

It's not that easy mate.

BettyDuMonde · 16/04/2019 08:59

Here’s a New Yorker piece about Twitter controversy on YA fiction.

2 books cancelled this year already (inc the one I already linked to):

www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/in-ya-where-is-the-line-between-criticism-and-cancel-culture

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/04/2019 09:00

Talk about me!
Talk about me!
Admire me!
worship me!

Don’t talk about me you bigot!!!

BettyDuMonde · 16/04/2019 09:07

This YA censorship is bigger than the trans stuff - it’s out of control identity politics driven by young, idealistic people, and the end result will likely be the opposite of the equality they claim to seek.

Here’s a quote from the New Yorker piece I linked to above:

“What happened to Jackson is frightening,” the author Jennifer Senior wrote, also in the Times. “Purity tests are the tools of fanatics, and the quest for purity ultimately becomes indistinguishable from the quest for power.” “A Place for Wolves,” Senior continued, “should have failed or succeeded in the marketplace of ideas. But it was never given the chance. The mob got to it first.”

Senior is right that the ongoing Y.A. wars are about power—about who has traditionally wielded power in publishing, and how that balance is shifting, for better or worse. A group of unpaid readers—one with an undeniable personal investment in the Y.A. community—seems to be doing much of the work of critique that is usually first the task of agents and editors, and then that of booksellers and critics. But, when these particular readers do that work, they are derided as pitchfork-wielding hysterics. When it comes to Y.A., what, precisely, is the difference between the marketplace of ideas and a Twitter mob?”

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/04/2019 09:23

thought he was being really understanding and allying and woke and this is the thanks he gets

Yep

I have no sympathy, he was probably watching stuff kick off online and in the media about 'terfs' and thought he was on the side of the angels

Epic fail

Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 09:24

YY Rufus.

LangCleg · 16/04/2019 09:28

Ignorant, complacent - unknowingly sexist - gay man writes trite story about dreadfully "transphobic" sibling. Gives it a happy ending with said child coming to a Woke Awakening and fully complying with the required Brave and Stunning social blueprint.

Ignorant, complacent gay man - who has a track record of writing similarly superficial stories about serious social issues - and who is expecting gushing reviews congratulating him on his Wondrous Wokeness, decides to write an article promoting his contribution to the Gender Canon in which he not only mocks a compatriot who has dared to disagree but also rejects a fundamental term in the new religion's catechism.

Ignorant, complacent gay man, who says he extensively researched his trite story, is deeply shocked to discover that his extensive research had not alerted him to any of the issues highlighted by the compatriot he mocked in his article, is subject to the predictable mob justice, and, rather than confront the dissonance, runs away from Twatter.

No sympathy from me.

Victoriapestis01 · 16/04/2019 09:36

Is this why recently published YA books have become so incredibly tedious? My eldest kids refuse to read them on the grounds they’re all about a social message which excludes boys unless they’re gay (I’m paraphrasing teenage boy speak here!). Umm, are there any books out there suitable for teenagers that promote free speech and critical thinking? Other than Fahrenheit 451? Something challenging?

LangCleg · 16/04/2019 09:38

Is this why recently published YA books have become so incredibly tedious?

Google "sensitivity readers".