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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Boyne's new book 'My brother's name is Jessica'.

428 replies

Helmetbymidnight · 14/04/2019 21:48

John Boyne (author of boy in the striped pajamas) is bringing out a book called My brother's name is Jessica, and this is simply not acceptable, apparently.

He's written an article here:

www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/john-boyne-why-i-support-trans-rights-but-reject-the-word-cis-1.3843005?fbclid=IwAR0WqWp2a3dIu-4pxDKS7k9XQO5lZR4PCKh_AFhAeTRoZMm0TmuiCBvoUjQ

Doc and co are going nuts at him. Not as nuts as they would if it was written by a straight woman, I imagine, but even so.

It's about time the world of books got stuck into this debate. They've been very slow on this one.

OP posts:
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LangCleg · 18/04/2019 08:55

I won't be reading this book because the outcome, acceptance and celebration, show me that it is politicised to pander to the transactivists.

Concur. As I said above, it's clear Boyne has written a trite, superficial story designed to garner Woke points. It has backfired. Tough. He does not seem to be reflecting on this at all - so why should I give a single solitary shit about his woes?

brizzlemint · 18/04/2019 09:25

I won't be reading this book because the outcome, acceptance and celebration, show me that it is politicised to pander to the transactivists.

Without reading it you won't know if that is true or if you are talking bollocks. It could be aimed at two things a) helping siblings accept what is happening and realise they aren't alone and b) making money. I have no problem with either of those. If you are right then I wouldn't want to read it either but I'd have to read it to know that - time to go to the library perhaps?

LangCleg · 18/04/2019 09:40

helping siblings accept what is happening

Fine line between that and grooming, if you ask me.

AbsintheFriends · 18/04/2019 09:58

I'm trying to find out if the event at Waterstones Piccadilly went ahead last night. Can't see any photos or tweets (which is very unusual) so am concluding that it didn't. Anyone know any different?

Trawling through twitter in search of info has made me grind my teeth. The number of TRAs calling JB 'a middle-aged cishet white male' is staggering, as is their couldn't-give-a-shit dismissal when someone points out he's gay. It seems that using the 'wrong' pronoun for a TRA is literal violence, but misrepresenting someone else's identity to suit their purposes is neither here nor there.

nauticant · 18/04/2019 10:12

The number of TRAs calling JB 'a middle-aged cishet white male'

As I wrote elsewhere, their goal is to score for themselves points below the line and assign as many points as possible above the line to their enemies.

The person with the greatest privilege loses, ironically enough.

John Boyne's new book 'My brother's name is Jessica'.
multivac · 18/04/2019 10:33

how old is Jessica? - 16

And most importantly: what happens next?
Does Jessica plan to go on to hormone blockers, then cross sex hormones, then surgery? - Jessica is not considering surgery - 'it's not about what's in my pants'. The hormones aspect is glossed over, IIRC.

As I said earlier, it's the bit about Jessica 'still fancying girls' that bothered me most - and how a future girlfriend will have to be 'very understanding'. I.E either a lesbian who can 'cope' with ladydick, or.. what? Bisexual? In any case, she must accept that her partner is an actual woman, right?

multivac · 18/04/2019 10:36

Essentially, the author dodges all the complicated bits. It's just about being Nice and Accepting and Inclusive.

Datun · 18/04/2019 10:52

Trawling through twitter in search of info has made me grind my teeth. The number of TRAs calling JB 'a middle-aged cishet white male' is staggering, as is their couldn't-give-a-shit dismissal when someone points out he's gay. It seems that using the 'wrong' pronoun for a TRA is literal violence, but misrepresenting someone else's identity to suit their purposes is neither here nor there

White, middle-aged, privileged, heterosexual men, bullying a gay man, is not unusual. Claiming it's progressive is, as is making everyone else believe it.

OldCrone · 18/04/2019 11:00

So according to the diagram posted by nauticant, a man who transitions after being married to a woman and fathering children, goes from being a 'cisgender', heterosexual, fertile male to a transgender, lesbian, infertile female.

Four oppression points in one go.

nauticant · 18/04/2019 11:06

It's just about being Nice and Accepting and Inclusive.

And amusingly, this fell a long way short of what is demanded. If you give what is demanded, it will never be enough. It will be thrown back in your face and an angry lecture will be delivered about how even attempting to meet the demands is an insult so bad it's literal violence.

Will JB learn from this? I don't expect much more than learning how to navigate the minefield more carefully. He probably won't reflect much on the nature of the minefield or particularly what on earth a minefield like this is doing in the middle of our discourse.

nauticant · 18/04/2019 11:14

I can't think of any other change that creates such an instant (and unchallengable) switch from privileged to oppressed* OldCrone.

  • in this case the "oppressed" is a a misnomer because the particular intersections of transgender, transbian, infertile, and female can, if handled properly, generate enormous privilege
Datun · 18/04/2019 11:26

So according to the diagram posted by nauticant, a man who transitions after being married to a woman and fathering children, goes from being a 'cisgender', heterosexual, fertile male to a transgender, lesbian, infertile female.

Four oppression points in one go.

"in this case the "oppressed" is a a misnomer because the particular intersections of transgender, transbian, infertile, and female can, if handled properly, generate enormous privilege"

Exactly.

Is the most regressive garbage I've ever seen. Promoting ideas, customs and attitudes to help redress a power inbalance has been subverted due to what?

Jealousy? A fervent desire to hold onto that power?

It's nauseating that forcing people to 'donate' you some of their oppression is widening the power gap even further.

Ereshkigal · 18/04/2019 11:34

White, middle-aged, privileged, heterosexual men, bullying a gay man, is not unusual. Claiming it's progressive is, as is making everyone else believe it.

Yes, quite stark when it's put like that!

Guyliner · 18/04/2019 11:47

won't be reading this book because the outcome, acceptance and celebration, show me that it is politicised to pander to the transactivists

I wont be reading it because I read the boy with the striped pyjamas!

LangCleg · 18/04/2019 12:02

Will JB learn from this? I don't expect much more than learning how to navigate the minefield more carefully. He probably won't reflect much on the nature of the minefield or particularly what on earth a minefield like this is doing in the middle of our discourse.

Of course he won't. I'm not even sure if he understands that women actually exist, let alone that his latest novel contributes to the weight of grooming children to lower their boundaries, accept bodily dissociation as a fine and healthy thing, and join the latest religious cult.

LillithsFamiliar · 18/04/2019 12:26

He'll probably learn to write his next book about a white gay boy . . .but all of this will be so entwined with his career, earning potential and creative freedom that I doubt he'll even consider the wider implications of the TRA pile-on.

I've been following all the YA censorship. I stumbled across it on Jesse Singal's feed months ago. All of this represents a real threat to artistic freedom. I don't understand why more creatives aren't making a stand tbh. imo this is as big a threat to the arts as funding cuts.

Popchyk · 18/04/2019 13:15

"He'll probably learn to write his next book about a white gay boy . . ."

But how can he write about being gay?

Gay means that you are attracted to the same sex as you, and that is trans-exclusive and therefore transphobic. He'd get an ever bigger pile-on for that.

The only way he can write a book about a young gay man is if he includes biological females as potential sexual partners for the young man and states that the young man finds them just as attractive as young males. More attractive, actually, because of their trans oppression and the author's message about always being kind and inclusive to them.

So the whole writing about same-sex relationships is taboo. Because same-sex relationships are not inclusive of opposite-sex people. Transgenderism renders homosexuality wrong, therefore homosexuality must be erased.

Lamaha · 18/04/2019 13:32

@brizzlemint Without reading it you won't know if that is true or if you are talking bollocks

I do know it because he said so himself.

AlwaysComingHome · 18/04/2019 13:59

He'll probably learn to write his next book about a white gay boy

If there any gay boys left to read it by then. The natal ones will probably be transed away and all those left will have been born girls.

3timeslucky · 18/04/2019 15:56

Are we allowed to say brother or sister when a baby is born. If brother or sister is dependant in the inner gender and or hmm the sex how can you possibly know before they declare their gender?

You can't possibly know so you can do a Tasmanian on it and not bother with recording anything at all (weeps at both the lunacy and the confusion of the words sex and gender since no birth cert ever has recorded gender).
www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/birth-certificate-gender-laws-pass-in-tasmania/10989170

InionEile · 18/04/2019 17:06

A gay cis boy? How retro. Very 90s. I believe rainbow gender MTF lesbians is where it’s at these days.

Helmetbymidnight · 18/04/2019 17:09

well, tbf, his last book 'the hearts invisible furies' is about a gay boy/man- and it is pretty fantastic. i havent seen any trans complaints yet.

OP posts:
cuirderussie · 18/04/2019 17:39

www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/whether-john-boyne-likes-it-or-not-he-is-a-cis-man-with-cis-privilege-1.3860808?mode=amp

"A doctor...took one look between my legs and decided I was male"

The author of this piece has written in other articles that #e married and had children (now separated). How can anyone claim to be a woman if they fathered children with their male body? How was that doctor wrong? My head just wants to fall off with this nonsense.

Guyliner · 18/04/2019 17:57

well, tbf, his last book 'the hearts invisible furies' is about a gay boy/man- and it is pretty fantastic. i havent seen any trans complaints yet.

He could do a sequel called The Hearts Invisible Furries to get back in their good graces.

Erythronium · 18/04/2019 18:22

So according to the diagram posted by nauticant, a man who transitions after being married to a woman and fathering children, goes from being a 'cisgender', heterosexual, fertile male to a transgender, lesbian, infertile female.

I did a double take at infertility being part of the axes of oppression on that diagram. It's easy to forget that white middle class males have to keep inventing new ones in order to be the most oppressedest ever.

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