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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Dress codes: are they beneficial?

69 replies

SassyCassie · 05/04/2019 20:57

My office has recently updated its dress code and the only footwear listed for women is 'appropriate heels'. This is very upsetting (not only for my collection of flats) but the health risks they can cause. A quick Google search shows that heels can affect circulation in the legs and cause feet, knee and back pains. I cannot believe this is seen as justifiable for the sake of 'appropriate' footwear, despite many flat footwear options being just as formal and smart.
Has anyone else had this sort of issue? If so is it something that could be resolved with higher management teams?

OP posts:
AwkwardSquad · 06/04/2019 06:23

It does highlight the importance of these codes being clear and specific, as StopThePlanet says, rather than ambiguous words like ‘appropriate’.

PlumPorter · 06/04/2019 06:30

Unless I'm missing something, I can't see what the problem is. Why are so many people assuming 'appropriate heels' means high?

I would take this to mean that heels should be flat or low and not so high that someone can't do their job properly.

My workplace requires 'appropriate attire', including shoes and heels, and I wear DM boots every day.

GerryblewuptheER · 06/04/2019 07:28

I would find out for sure first. I would read it as not too high/unsafe if you wear heels.

I dont do herald either. I'm a dm/boot/trainer person

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 06/04/2019 07:35

All shoes have heels, though Confused, including flat shoes, so I'm not sure what you're getting upset about.

Have you considered asking for clarification before referring it to senior management?

Namelessinseattle · 06/04/2019 07:40

Yeah I read it as make sure the heel is appropriate whether it’s high mid or flat same way minimal or discrete jewelry wouldn’t make me think jewellery is mandatory.

DpWm · 06/04/2019 07:41

SassyCassy
Just wear the flat shoes you like and if they object, you'll have your answer.

I also think appropriate heels includes flat shoes.
But also assume it doesn't include flip-flops unless you are a lifeguard?

LassOfFyvie · 06/04/2019 07:51

I would take this to mean that heels should be flat or low and not so high that someone can't do their job properly

I can't imagine what sort of low heel would do that. I appreciate certain posters on FWR have a bizarre over-reaction to ballet flats- apparently you can't walk in them- (which is odd as they have been my choice of flats for walking in for decades)

So far as very high heels unless the job involves a lot of standing or walking or running about I can't see why very high heels should make a difference either. My job is mainly sitting at a desk with the occasional trip to the photocopier. I'm sure I could do that in 6 inch heels.

If there is no practical reason then the employers are making a value judgement about the type of clothes which are suitable - which of course they are entitled to. Very scruffy, casual or revealing clothes are likely to be frowned on- particularly where the job is client facing.

Very high heels aren't casual,revealing or scruffy - will the OP make a fuss if it is (as about half of us think) very high heels which are being targeted?

Oddly the only people I've ever known who were told off for shoe violations were men. One was told to clean and shine his shoes and another that his choice of footwear was far too weird for an office and was unacceptable in front of clients.

EdithWeston · 06/04/2019 07:53

I think dress codes are often a good idea. This is because casual and dress-down tend to be more expensive for women, and also lead to more 'fashionable' attire which does not carry the gravitas of the much narrower range of men's attire.

But there are some things that are just wrong to include, and saying that someone must wear heels is one of them. Giving a maximum heel height (to take the vertiginous out of the workplace) might be more sense! And perhaps a ban on trainers and other sports shoes, if they are seeking a certain image?

Notwiththeseknees · 06/04/2019 07:55

Sorry, but I take it to mean "no vertigous heel heights" no "no flats". As they refer to them as heels, trainers are
not appropriate as they have no heels IYSWIM.

LassOfFyvie · 06/04/2019 07:56

But there are some things that are just wrong to include, and saying that someone must wear heels is one of them

It isn't saying that.

InfiniteCurve · 06/04/2019 07:57

I hate heels,but I'm not very pro dress code ,and this brings out my anti authority streak.
I'd read it as "heels must be of reasonable height" rather than " heels must be worn" - they've just worded it badly IMO.
But I worked in a hospital for a bit,some of the doctors wore killer heels and seemed to function just fine,so why bother about height?

Notwiththeseknees · 06/04/2019 07:58

@EdithWeston GrinI was typing as you were posting, but you spell better than I do !

DpWm · 06/04/2019 08:27

some of the doctors wore killer heels and seemed to function
Yikes!
You really need to train your feet to be able to walk around all day in heels. And, being doctors they must surely know how bad that is for your feet.
It's weird with heels because after you've shaped your foot and trained the muscles to walk in them a lot, when you switch to flats it's actually hard to walk in flats.

skybluee · 06/04/2019 09:08

Wow. That's horrendous. So does this odd policy apply only to women and not to men?

What is the exact wording?

'Appropriate' is very ambiguous and I reckon that's your way out. I'd wear what you want, and if questioned say it is appropriate. Surely they would have to define what that means within the policy? They may not want to redo/amend their policy.

A flat heel is very appropriate for work.

How is forcing women to wear heels not gender based discrimination? It's nuts.

Someone needs to take legal action against a company for damage to their health due to wearing heels. I'm sure there are numerous cases. Some people have probably been wearing them for 50+ years. Yes, I know some people can wear them without problems but a lot can't. I also think they are quite disabling. They limit activity and can prevent someone functioning properly in their job role potentially. I remember a ward manager wearing heels and when a patient absconded, the reason she gave for not being able to follow was that she was wearing heels and couldn't run in them.

skybluee · 06/04/2019 09:08

PS will you update us on what happens? I'm very interested in this and I hope you get to wear 'appropriate' shoes - shoes that are appropriate for you and your work. Good luck.

LassOfFyvie · 06/04/2019 09:10

How is forcing women to wear heels not gender based discrimination?

It isn't forcing women to wear heels. It is prohibiting them wearing very high heels.

TowelNumber42 · 06/04/2019 09:11

I would interpret that as please wear sensible shoes

CherryPavlova · 06/04/2019 09:12

I pull my permanent and temporary teams up on inappropriate heels. Daft stilettos and kitten heels are useless if we are out and about; I tell them to go and put their plodders on.

skybluee · 06/04/2019 09:13

PPS. That document on dress code guidance produced by the Government states "Transgender employees should be allowed to follow the organisation’s dress code in a way which they feel matches their gender identity"

So why aren't women allowed to do that?

cherryblossomgin · 06/04/2019 09:21

Find out if they are saying you must wear a heel or if they are saying that you can wear flat shoes and heels but they must be under a certain height. If they are saying you must wear heels then I would get a group of you who disagree to question it in writing and explain why you won't be doing it. Heels aren't for everyone. I can't wear heels due to misaligned knees and early onset osteoporosis.

Lweji · 06/04/2019 09:24

Do they say what appropriate heels mean?
Because I'd read it as: anything but not too high.
So, no to low heels. Basically as no 10 inch stilettos.

GreenEggsHamandChips · 06/04/2019 09:25

I would take appropriate heels to mean flats too. No drama

skybluee · 06/04/2019 09:25

Lass - I meant in general. How is forcing women to wear heels not gender based discrimination? It is. E.g. if a company required a certain level of heel for women. Which I think is utterly nuts. Just my opinion. Sorry if that was written in an unclear way.

Having said that, the government document says:

"It is best to avoid gender specific prescriptive requirements, for example the requirement to wear high heels" as a guideline.

Then follows with:
"Is it lawful for an employer to require female employees to wear high heels?
It is likely to be unlawful under the Equality Act 2010 for employers to require women to wear high heels, with the discomfort or health issues that may entail, and as there is no male equivalent"

You would hope that would cover everyone. But in practice, I'm sure there are a lot of companies who may have dress codes that stipulate women need to wear heels, and that is what I find not OK. E.g. the woman who was in the news a few years ago where the company tried to make her wear heels. Despite this Government guidance. Because of the wording of the OP's company dress code, she may be completely fine, because she can wear an appropriate heel. It just depends on the companies interpretation of that.

LassOfFyvie · 06/04/2019 09:27

That document on dress code guidance produced by the Government states "Transgender employees should be allowed to follow the organisation’s dress code in a way which they feel matches their gender identity"

So why aren't women allowed to do that?

What is your point? The code is "appropriate heels" - not you must wear high heels.

Or are you making the point it is discriminating against women who want to hear high heels and there is no reason why the job can't be done by someone wearing high heels?

LassOfFyvie · 06/04/2019 09:30

How is forcing women to wear heels not gender based discrimination?

It isn't forcing women to wear high heels. Quite the opposite. Are you going to make a fuss on behalf of women who want to wear high heels but can't under this policy?