Surrogacy

[Annasgirl]

So I'm here in Ireland listening to a national radio show where they are promoting surrogacy.

It seems as if we are all supposed to think it is ok. Now to be fair, the host is not really on board but the young woke roving reporter (a girl) really is!!! And apparently only religious people are against it (according to the woke young female reporter).

I've just found out that there is a bill coming through the Dail to legalise the process in Ireland, although just for altruistic stuff in Ireland. And guess what - they want to make it broader because no woman in Ireland would really want to do this, (why, if it so wonderful) so they want the US and Canada and Ukraine etc included.

Any thoughts?

I know we had a chat on here about it recently and many of us seemed to feel that surrogacy was really anti-women, and yes I really believe it is.

So it has all ended and there was no absolutely no discussion on any ethical issues or women's issues - because clearly that is all religion and we don't do religion in Ireland any more.

Sorry, just needed to rant to you all.

• Post edited at OP's request.

and thankfully the law doesn't allow people to have and then just 'give' their offspring to other people

Yes, I was going to say!

From The Prophet

"And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children.
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

 You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
 For they have their own thoughts.
 You may house their bodies but not their souls,
 For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
 You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
 For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
 You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
 The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
 Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
 For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable."

~Kahlil Gibran

The above poem helped me leave selfishness at the door of desire for parenthood.

I'm involved in the surrogacy community to a lesser degree than I was, but still on the fringes.

It frightens me to see just how quickly poorly educated and financially struggling women will 'match' with IPs (intended parents).

There's also a real prize now in securing the cutest gay couple.

Just google Burger King Baby. I was in those groups at the time and we all knew it was going to fall apart.

But finally, the reason I was in the groups was because I was researching...I was a gestational carrier for my friends (twice). Helping her to be a mother is one of my proudest moments.

I'm not a medic nor am I particularly versed in the infant/child brain. But having had three of my own, I know a happy child when I see one. And they are happy.

I'm also a bit of a radfem who appears to have made an appearance on a TERF list (even though I am not a TERF and I consider that moniker a slur). So I'm critical.

As me anything 😆

Minecraft - can I ask did you do anything to ease the transition for the babies having been carried in your body for 9 months? Because it does seem the links made in the womb are important. What about breastfeeding (and before this causes a de-rail, yes I know lots of babies are formula fed from birth and fine, but she said AMA so I am because I'm curious - I know some adoptive mums breastfeed)? Are you in these adults and childrens lives still? It sounds like you are - I think this is important too - I hate the idea that a woman can be used and then discarded which seems to be what happens in commercial surrogacy, it so devalues the role of the mother during pregnancy.

I do think altruistic surrogacy can probably work out well for all when the adults involved have healthy, respectful and strong long-standing relationships but it is the thin end of the wedge and I don't think human beings should be considered as possessions, which is very much how the baby is seen in commercial surrogacy.

@Ineedacupofteadesperately hello.

In both cases we stayed together all of us for the first day, in the first case for 2 days. Me there with my husband just being around whilst they tended to their baby. The second one just a day (early morning baby) and they were signed out late that night.

The IM has a hormonal issue so inducing lactation wasn't an option. She did get two specialists' opinions on this, the issue she has is why she can't carry so we were never hopeful.

I'm a seasoned old pro when it comes to BF and hand expressed all day (two as a half days with the first) and they fed baby via syringe. Then onto formula.

As for the balance, we are all of us educated to the same degree and all high earners.

We are in the children's lives as much as we can be bearing in mind we're about 4.5 hrs away from each other; I'm a partner at a v busy law firm and my husband is the VP of intl sales at his American company and a busy bastard. We have three children of our own and a Labrador. So we see them as much as we can, I dare say they're as busy as we are! We're the children's godparents and this matters to us.

We love them and they love us. The kids are learning about their entrances into this world and I kept a diary throughout the pregnancies.

Their parents and families read to the babies whilst inside me via belly-buds; all the books we grew up with! It was lovely, esp since grandad has since died and now they have his voice reading Flat Stanley forever.

I didn't look into the effect of babies being taken from their gestational carrier to their parents. We had a plan for a little cocooned babymoon together for at least a day and that worked out for us, thanks to the hospital! But that wasn't to ease the baby over to them, it was actually more for me.

I wouldn't have changed a thing.

If you google the Burger King Baby you'll see how the male couple treated their surrogate. The judge is thoroughly scathing of them and how flippantly they dealt with her and her feelings.

She was of a lower social and economic status to them and they treated that woman with such disdain I cried when I read some of the facts in the judgement.

That didn't end well for them...those blokes were just, "I want, I want...".

Thankyou for pointing towards the Burger King Baby Minecraft and yes what a mess and a tragedy for the child involved.

Can I ask you a strange question regarding the two children you carried for your friend. Did they smell similar to your biological babies or was there an obvious difference at birth?

The weird question comes from my belief that smell is the primary way that babies identify their mothers and visa versa.

Minecraft - wow that does sound as good as it gets for surrogacy and I'm in awe of the amazing thing you've done for your friends. I think the openness about their origins with the children is also important, and they will see that although unconventional their birth is rooted in love, respect and care. What will the babies of commercial surrogacy feel? Or will they be lied to?

I do think the problem is that most surrogacy, especially commercial surrogacy, is not like this. And I think legislation should protect the vulnerable - the babies treated as items to buy and the poorer women who would be tempted by surrogacy but treated as disposable.

They were on my stomach when born until the cord stopped pulsating and then taken away for all the midwifery things. Then they went to mum and dad for skin to skin. I didn't smell them for a while. I was getting stitched up (literally, not metaphorically!) and they did some weird pain-killing injection on me too. So I was away from them for a long time.

When I did finally get a snug, they smelled differently to me, I even commented on it. But I believe it was the milk.

We're hoping to get our shit together and get away to Cornwall together this summer.