Would it be possible to repeal the GRA?

[happydappy2]

We can all see the potential problems of allowing some men into womens sex segregated spaces....it is impossible to tell harmless gender dysphoric individuals from potential predators. The fact this has become such a 'toxic' issue that MPs are too scared to mention it, is simply not good enough. The legal fiction of a GRC is incredibly bad law....and is (in my view) not fit for purpose.

It's possible. I doubt it will happen for many years but I do think it will happen.

I sincerely hope so, it is not fit for purpose.

Any law can be repealed or amended, but to do that you need to pass another law saying so.

The Law is The Law, until it is something else, and then that is The Law. Until it is....etc.

Previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3284786-Repeal-the-GRA

Ah thanks-will have a read through

I think this is the end game. Its going to go along with a lot of other rights.

Yes, it's possible. And I do think it will go in due course.

It was a badly designed solution to a problem which would have been solved a better way.
It has created the most irresolvable conflict between the right to be recognised by sex, and to recognise others accordingly, and the right to falsify one's sex and compel others to deny reality.

It's unsustainable. It will be gone within a generation, and I hope, much sooner.

The UK is where the weathervane will turn first, for this law and similar laws globally. But public awareness has not reached critical mass yet, not by a long shot.

I don't think it will replaced for a long time, and when it is, I think it's likely to be replaced by an act which supports self-id. I can't imagine any government wanting to get into the minutiae of sex and gender rights in legislation, as it's such a minefield. I think when it does change, legislation will simply reflect social change and informal policy, and sex-based rights are being eroded, so that doesn't bode well.

BadPennyNoBiscuit

What other rights do you think will go with it?

I’m also starting to think we were stitched up with Equalities Act 2010. If that is repealed what happens to all the previous sex discrimination laws that were repealed on creation of the Equality Act? Do they become unrepealed?

And I agree with everything Barracker says.

It will go, I am sure of it. But I suspect it wont go because of activism or push back. Though push back is vital for our lives now.

It will go because the extreme TRA movement is a fad, a little historical moment of madness primarily restricted to anglophone liberal democracies. It serves no one, really, other than fetishists and those who wish to undermine women and reduce the safeguarding of children. So, about 95% of the population looses out should we succumb to the TRA agenda. Your typical heterosexual man doesn't gain from this, they want to have sex with actual women and procreate with them, as humans have done for millennia... and vice versa for women...

There is almost none of this bullshit elsewhere and the cultural agenda of liberal democracies is not likely to be (rabid understatement) enthusiastically accepted in advancing countries, not least, 'cause they dont waste their time educating their workforce with such pointless psychobabble.

I don't think it will replaced for a long time, and when it is, I think it's likely to be replaced by an act which supports self-id

Self-id in this county has been frozen. It's so unpopular it will never happen.
We're still left with the problem maybe British citizens can hop over to Ireland or Scotland to get their false birth certificate, but it'll never happen in Britain. Not now.

The GRA itself, will probably remain for quite some time but with gatekeeping. Anyway trans will eventually become so unpopular, everyone in the next generation will see it for what it is. A very harmful ideology destined for history. A "flash in the pan"
Historians will write about it for years to come.

^Fuuuck
England not Britain!

Its absolutely pointless now. It was only brought about so trans people could marry same sex, and for equal pension rights, both of which matters have been sorted now.

RepealTheGRA the Tories have no interest in retaining any human rights legislation and look to the US for their model of society.
Labour have been persuaded that The Equality Act is meaningless and they can safely ignore it.

The rights are enshrined in law not just for this government, but for any future government. You only have to look at how easily Trump was elected and his effect on womens rights to be worried.

RepealtheGRA thanks for the link to the previous thread about this, from back in June 2018. So much has happened since then, so many people can see the damage trans ideology is doing. Although many are keeping quiet about it people are much more knowledgable. Having looked at the gov't website about petitions, you have to provide your name when starting a petition.....is there any way of doing so anonymously? Clearly the backlash from TRAs is not something I would wish on anyone.

.is there any way of doing so anonymously?

I don’t think so. But the targeting of individuals is not working in their favour. Believe it or not the law is (just about) on our side atm. We just have to keep it that way.

hi repealthegra notice you are also on the support for Carro thread.....its exactly that sort of abusive behaviour I would be worried about unleashing if I started a petition....everyone has a digital footprint & I'd be easy to find...very frustrating.

Don’t let them scare you. We are many, they are few. There’s too many people speaking out now. They can’t go after everybody. They thought they could go after Caroline and paint her as a religious bigot and feminists wouldn’t stand with her because she campaigned to keep the 8th. They were wrong.

You’re probably better off writing to your MP and putting the case for repeal, rather than starting a petition anyway.

Its absolutely pointless now. It was only brought about so trans people could marry same sex, and for equal pension rights, both of which matters have been sorted now.

This^ There is no need for it anymore. Equalities Act could do with a tweak as well - no problem with gender being a protected category, but need to be make clear that that gender is not the same as sex, and gender has no impact on sex.

The GRA 2004 was created specifically circumvent same-sex marriage [which did not become law until 2013] and to accommodate the need for some males who "transitioned" to claim the women;'s state pension before equalisation of pension ages between men and women became law.

Those two purposes are now defunct, so yes it should be possible to repeal the GRA 2004 on those grounds.

Surely, a really progressive society is one which allows for men and women to cross-dress and not need to deceive anyone about that via the Legal Fiction of falsifying a new Birth Certificate?

As already mentioned the GRA was about marriage and pensions. It was never a license to enter protected spaces or get jobs restricted for privacy or positive action. Sad thing is we quietly accepted transsexuals using our spaces until not long ago. Shifting sands indeed.

Surely, a really progressive society is one which allows for men and women to cross-dress and not need to deceive anyone about that via the Legal Fiction of falsifying a new Birth Certificate?

Absolutely agree.

Can we get David TC Davies to propose it? Private members bill? Surely there’s some housekeeping principle in Parliament whereby if a law becomes anachronistic so quickly and is just hanging about causing problems then you can get rid of it?

Yes it's obsolete now.

The only practical thing it's good for is to allow males who say they are women into women's prisons with a far less rigorous risk assessment (and that bar was extremely low to start with).

There's the thing about all-women shortlists but the subset of tw with a GRC who also want to go into politics with a party that uses AWS is extremely tiny. The issue with AWS is opening them up to self-ID and how that affects the definition of woman and sex in the equality act if it's allowed to stand.

Practically the GRA could be repealed without affecting anyone's genuine rights.

Politically I don't think it could be repealed (at the moment) without causing a major shitstorm which just isn't worth it because such a tiny number of people have a GRC.

My preferred solution would be to let it dwindle into obsolescence, while tightening the rules around what a GRC actually allows you to do - prison rules mostly.

I'd also like to see an amendment that made it lawful to disclose a person's birth sex and unlawful to withold that info if it's connected to one of the EA single sex exceptions. So for example if you apply for a job as a rape counsellor that was advertised as female only it would not be lawful for you to submit your shiny new birth certificate as ID and say nothing about the fact you are male, and it would not be illegal for anyone involved in the recruitment process who became aware that you are male to pass that information on to their colleagues.